Busse knives really worth the bux ?

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I like ESEE, I have a 3, 4, 5, 6, and a Junglas.
I carry my 4 frequently and it is one of my favorite knives.

The Junglas is similar in form and function to the BWM.

The others (including the 4) have little in common with anything Busse
and cannot be said to compare favorably, IMO.
 
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Over the past two decades or so collecting knives and guns, I've come to this conclusion. I prefer quality over quantity, so I have sold most of my collections and kept the best of the best. In the case of blades, this means Busse and kin as well as a few customs. I personally get a lot more pleasure using the items from my smaller collections than I did when they were 10x bigger and it's freed up quite a bit of space as a side benefit! YMMV

LOL! I work for a gunsmith. One guy brought it and arm full (literally) of broken rifles. They were all cheap crappy .22s. He wanted to know what it would cost to fix them.
When I told him that none were worth the cost to fix them he started whining. I told him that for what he paid for all of them, he could have bought a really nice rifle. He
replied, "But then I wouldn't have all of these." How can you deal with that kind of thinking? :rolleyes:
 
IMO, yes. But only if you get one that fits your needs and has good ergos that are appropriate for your usage. Like others have said, SR probably hits the price/performance sweet spot. I have a Bandicoot in 52100 that I bought for $88. One of my all time favorite bushcraft knives.

http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/sodak_photos/inventory/p1010471.jpg

My all time favorite? The SH ergo. Best knife they ever made, hands down, IMO.

As for chopping concrete, there are times I have been chopping tree roots, and hit either rocks or steel edging. Accidents happen, it's nice to know that your knife will suffer minimal damage, not major chunks getting blown out. If I only depend on one in the woods, it's usually a Busse.
 
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The majority of Busse knives people buy are fondled, admired, bragged upon -- basically collected and never used. I think that tells the story more than anything else.

I have a few favorite field knives that I use. But if I'm told I have to go to some unknown place for a couple of years and only take one knife, I'm not taking my ESSE 6, Bravo 1 or Ratmandu, I'm taking my Fallkniven S1. A tough, laminated stainless knife with a grippy handle will fair much better in the jungle, on a tropical island, Pacific rain forest, snow, mud and other wet environments. All these other knives will simply rust away over time. Since I see the S1 as my knife of last resort, I consider it my most valuable knife and will not pay more to get less.
 
Regarding quantity versus quality I'd say that it's more of a balance than it is an all-or-nothing. Look at it this way--you need to drive a screw. You can buy ONE of the very best #2 phillips (most common size) drivers, or you can buy a pack of six cheap ones. That's the analogy that most folks are making with quantity vs. quality. But what if you still have the same budget, but sometimes you need to ALSO drive flathead, square, hex, and Torx screws? Or even just other sizes of phillips head? Do you still spend all your money on the very best #2 phillips? Or do you buy a nice one that's still more than good enough to do the job, and then also buy the other drivers you need in a good solid quality range?

Of course if you have the money it might make sense to get ALL of the drivers in the highest possible quality, but for most folks it's going to be a case of still buying one, but neither the best nor the worst. Right in the middle tends to be where you stretch your dollar the most. :)
 
Like others have mentioned, there comes a point of diminishing returns on tools and new Busse knives are well past that for me. Knowing what i need a knife for and how hard i stress them, i'm certain most knives in the $200 range are more than adequate to accomplish all that i'm going to do with a knife.
 
I'll throw in my .02 here. I own about 15 busse kin knives. If you asked me right now to grab one knife and make it work forever I would grab by camp tramp without hesitation and trust it without fail. However, being a huge utilitarian in general I have found there is a significant diminishing return with Busse (not kin) knives. To be honest I think that INFI is great in a wet or salt water environment. The steels lateral strength is great. The edge will roll and not chip under extreme use. I trust the steel will not BREAK. SR101 holds a great edge and has better retention in my opinion that INFI but stains. I still have never had the steel chip or had a broken tip. The SR7 grade steel sharpens the easiest of any steel I have had in the field. The scrapper 6 was carried without fail for 3 years of hard Infantry use and only passed away when loss on a field exercise. So yes the knives are durable.

But...the cons that I have found are: The edges are significantly too thick for my preference, the edge geometry is poor and the traditional busse is to thick for general use (AKA heavy), buying sheaths for them are such a pain in the a$$ that it prompted me to start making my own kydex about 10 years ago (I guess I should be thankful), the edge retention on anything but SR101 has been in my opinion comparable to decent heat treated 5160 so good but not the best I have ever seen, the cost return paypack is not great IMHO with the busse brand but I do really like some of the older swamp rats and scrapper knives.

The pros are they hold their value very well. So if you aren't impressed you can get 80% of new cost usually for a user.

If I needed a knife to bring to combat I have and would choose a busse (original satin jack OIF 1-2, Scrapper OIF 3-4, Scrapper #2 OIF 6).

To woods bum or camp you wouldn't see me with one. They don't process wood well enough for my taste. They are to heavy to carry around and the coatings are annoying when I process game and prep food. Oh and I freaking HATE choils.

My .02
 
Pretty much everyone on this forum knows that I could easily fit into the definition of "fanboy" when it comes to Busse knives. Pretty obvious now since I'm one of the moderators for Jerry's forum... But I didn't just blindly become a fan.

About four or five years ago, perhaps a bit longer now, I had just discovered Busse knives through this knife forum. after buying a few and using them, I was impressed, but began to suspect that I was not using any of my to its full potential because despite knowing that it had a fantastic warranty on it, it was indeed a pricey knife. Kinda like buying a brand new car built for speed, but being afraid to ever "push it" past a highway speed limit.

So... After letting a residential property get out of hand and completely overgrown, including several trees, many bushes & bramble, and every dang weed under the sun, including all the landscape beds that had many medium & large rocks used for decoration now (then) hidden in the overgrowth, I hired a pair of guys to come in and clear everything out and clean up the place. When they arrived, I noticed that they had nothing substantial to cut back the overgrowth save for a small pair of cutting shears. No machetes, axes, hatchets, or even a belt knife. An idea hit me... Hand them the Busse and tell them to use it as they saw fit to do the job. I did tell them that it was a Busse and had they heard of the brand...to which they both just kinda shrugged and answered no. I handed it over and they got to work.

They took me literally. Both of them took turns with it for over six hours without stopping and they really went to town on it. Man, they beat it like it was a stolen red-headed stepchild! ;) During the time, I was inside the house handling some paperwork and catching up on other tasks and such, and other than hearing the occasional load sound of metal against rock (and yes, I cringed each time!) I let them be.

this is the test subject. Please note that at the time these were taken, I had to compress the photos to upload to my free Photobucket account so due to the limitations of file size, some of these shots might make the knife's edge look jagged. Until the after shots, the edge was as it was from Busse, without modification.
FBMCG_Small.jpg


Here it is after my last light session of use before I gave it to the landscaping guys. Still very new, and with its original factory edge, but no longer "mint":
Dirty_Ruck-CGFBM.jpg


After the (very unscientific) test, I took these photos. The section of the edge in the photo is where 98+% of the 'damage' occurred. What very little there was further back toward the handle was not worth including and steeled right out with a few passes:
Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-1.jpg


Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-3.jpg


Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-2.jpg


Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-4.jpg


Yep, there was some edge damage. But other than the bit they managed to shear off the tip on one of those rocks, there really wasn't any damage I'd consider to be major, relatively speaking...and even the tip shear wasn't that major. All of this consisted of dents, rolls (of which some were torn out from further use) and the tip which was indeed shorn and not chipped or snapped off. There was no area of the edge that chipped out! And, there was plenty of still sharp and usable edge left. 15 minutes or so with a steel took care of all but the worst areas that were torn after rolling. 30 to 45 minutes on my first time with an Edge Pro took care of the rest without much metal lost overall. The tip area was a PITA to sharpen back to a usable sharp tip, but that was probably more due to my inexperience with the Edge Pro, and I don't think many people would even notice looking at it now that the tip ever had a damaging strike. I could have sent this in to Busse and they would have taken care of it, but I needed the experience and quite honestly, I didn't feel right about taking advantage of its warranty, and even though it was unintentionally damaged and would have been covered, I felt that I intentionally placed the knife in the position to be damaged.

After a cleaning & steeling, but before the Edge Pro (which hadn't been delivered yet):
Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-After-B.jpg
Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-After-A.jpg


...And after applying a new edge:
FBM_New-Edge3a.jpg


FBM_New-Edge3.jpg


I apologize for the really long post,and I hope that I haven't bored you, the Reader...but in a nutshell, my point is this. These two workers only cared about completing the job to my satisfaction and getting paid. They really beat the crap out of this Battle Mistress to get it done and didn't care how it handled it. They didn't know how much it cost me, and so they didn't hold back at all. The knife took it all and didn't break, snap, chip, lose a handle slab, bend, or sustain any other major damage that would have required it to be sent in for repair. The basic stats on this knife model is a 10" blade that is .25" at the spine, but considerably thinner from below the corrugated bevels to the edge.

After this experience, I would trust any Busse in my hands to do what I needed of it, and more importantly (to me), I know that I don't ever have to worry about holding back when using one. :thumbup:

Are Busse knives worth the bucks? Heck yes, I certainly believe so...and same goes for the Swamp Rat & Scrap Yard knives. Also, with the fantastic warranty covering each Busse/ Swamp Rat/ Scrap Yard knife that stays with the knife from owner to owner, you really only ever have to buy just that one once if you decide to invest in one of the finest hard use knives around. I expect that my Busse(kin) knives will easily outlive me.

JMHO & experience... Of course, your opinion(s) may vary. :)
 
Never needed a 3/8" thick indestructible $500 short sword because I use a $30 axe to do the same work. Only it's faster and safer with the axe.

Most INFI products are way too thick & obtuse to be efficient slicers. I hear there are some models which can slice well, but even then you're getting outside of INFI's wheelhouse. You'd be better off with any one of a dozen powder steels if you want a champion slicer, and you'd probably save money to boot.

I don't think INFI compares all that well to CPM-3V. INFI has roughly the same % carbon as 5160 depending on which set of stats you're looking at, and INFI's nitrogen content seems to be hit-or-miss. On the other hand CPM-3V has markedly superior edge retention when cutting materials that are somewhat abrasive (as are many natural materials found in the great outdoors). INFI and 3V do share a few traits: some corrosion resistance, great toughness, and hefty price tags. But to disregard the significant difference in edge retention seems a little suspicious. Herein is some of the oft-mentioned INFI hype, I think.

I do feel that Busse's build quality, aesthetics, and warranty are beyond reproach. And I agree that they're good collector items. People do collect weirder stuff than $500 short swords. Much much weirder stuff. Different strokes.
 
Very nice post, Jaxx! I appreciate you taking the time to post that! :cool::thumbup:

To be honest, however, the damage looks like what I'd expect to see on a knife of that geometry. It has a lot of supporting material to the edge, and if the same knife were produced in S7 or even a more basic carbon steel and given a springy heat treatment at around 55RC then I'd still expect about the same level of damage, and no chips either. It actually looks not much better than the back edge on my colima-pattern Imacasa machete after I used it for two straight hours of chopping up sod in rock-filled heavy clay soil. About 30 seconds on the grinder and all the dings were removed and it looked as good as new without significant blade loss. Steel is much tougher than most of us think it is, when given a heat treatment biased towards toughness. :) But yes, the Busse clearly took that abuse like a boss. Great creative way to break the "too pretty to use" barrier! :D
 
Ive done the same clearing of property as posted above with a BK-9. Same results. Little touch up on the stone and strop and it was like new again.
 
I own about 6 Busse knives, and have never used them. Not once. But I can't make myself sell them either. I listed 2 for sale a few weeks ago, and then locked the threads before anyone could buy one. TLC should make a show about this kind of mental illness called Powernoodle: on the convex edge of sanity.
 
Pretty much. They're worth it to some folks but not to me personally. If I ever need to cut through a chain I'll use the folding hacksaw in my pack. I don't have any use for the majority of the Busse/BusseKin models (though there are some that aren't half bad to my eye) and I find that less expensive knives perform more than well enough for my needs so I invest my money into other things.

I do agree that the BusseKin lines are much more attractively priced and they run an admirable business, but the hype and the designs just aren't for me as a whole.

+1 for the Wisdom, I agree with this.
 
I own a few Busse knives and I understand the problem people find with cost, a much less expensive knife will cut/chop/pierce as well but if you buy one and it feels right you will understand. I am not a "fanboy" just a guy who liked knives and wanted to try some of the best production knives I could find so I have Becker,ESEE,Scrapyard,Swamprat,Busse,Spyderco,benchmade, and many others .If I sent my Benchmade in back to them because I wanted to chop a chain off a tree I don`t think they would ask me to send it in for them to fix it. Some Busse knives, not all, are flat out beautiful !
The screwdriver analogy works well for me also; if you have used the cheap screwdrivers enough you just get sick of the durability and buy a few good ones and they are a pleasure to use.
 
Never needed a 3/8" thick indestructible $500 short sword because I use a $30 axe to do the same work. Only it's faster and safer with the axe.

Most INFI products are way too thick & obtuse to be efficient slicers. I hear there are some models which can slice well, but even then you're getting outside of INFI's wheelhouse. You'd be better off with any one of a dozen powder steels if you want a champion slicer, and you'd probably save money to boot.

I don't think INFI compares all that well to CPM-3V. INFI has roughly the same % carbon as 5160 depending on which set of stats you're looking at, and INFI's nitrogen content seems to be hit-or-miss. On the other hand CPM-3V has markedly superior edge retention when cutting materials that are somewhat abrasive (as are many natural materials found in the great outdoors). INFI and 3V do share a few traits: some corrosion resistance, great toughness, and hefty price tags. But to disregard the significant difference in edge retention seems a little suspicious. Herein is some of the oft-mentioned INFI hype, I think.

I do feel that Busse's build quality, aesthetics, and warranty are beyond reproach. And I agree that they're good collector items. People do collect weirder stuff than $500 short swords. Much much weirder stuff. Different strokes.

It's not all about the carbon or nitrogen, much of INFI's performance is a product of the heat treating process.
The steel matters less to me than blade shape and geometry as well as handle design. I sold my Fusion Steel Heart, but I'll never sell my original Steel Heart in A2...it's not about the steel for me. I also have a 1/4" Scrap Yard knife (War Dog) in INFI and it's a great slicer. I prefer 3/16" or less in a knife that size, but I can't argue that it's a great slicer. The older I get the smaller my preferred knives are. Also agree with 14 ALL about the $30 axe except mine was $20 :)
 
As I read this thread, I wonder what the big deal is? If you are happy with your $15 Mora, great. If a $2000 Ed Fowler Pronghorn floats your boat, great.

I have owned many cheap and very expensive knives over the years. (More then I care to think about.) Most I sold for various reasons.
I see no reason to denigrate anyone for wanting a Busse or any other brand knife.

I have heard folks make fun of guys who spend $1500 for a binocular. To them, a $10 bino from Walmart is just fine. Some folks drive Chevy and some
drive Mercedes.
 
my personal experiance, vot an ash1 for a good price in new condition. edge was very thick, spine was incredably think handle to me was uncomfertable. i reprofiled fhe edge, and it takes a fine edge. in the end i was dissapointed and traded it. imo not worth the money and does not perform 4x better then a mora. knife is designed to cut not chop bricks or chains. remember they have no sheath so add a few more bucks. persoanlly there are many inexpensive knives superior to busse in many ways. that being said there fit and finish is the best ive seen they do a great job, forum has nice people and mr busse will take care od u. if gou can afford it, buy one. if you dont like it sell it, tbey are easy to resell for more even.
 
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