Busse v Randall's Adventure & Training ESEE

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mamba

Joined
Nov 23, 2009
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Please state your preference and why between the following two knives:
- 'Busse'
- 'Randall's Adventure & Training ESEE'
 
Neither. Busse's are too expensive for what you get and the only ESEE design I like is the Izula 2 but I already have a better knife for that niche.
 
Shotgun said:
Neither. Busse's are too expensive for what you get and the only ESEE design I like is the Izula 2 but I already have a better knife for that niche.
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That's pretty much how I feel about them aswell. I don't care for most of their knife designs. Too much emphasis in design on tactical use for my taste. Both manufacturers use blade coatings which I hate. Both use choils on most of their knives which I also hate. I can't speak on Busse ergonomics, but I think ESEE ergos are horrible. Both are what I would call "Tactical Utility" knives. One thing I do think Busse has over ESEE is a willingness to use premium steels though. Again, neither are my cup of tea. I'll take the equivalent Bark River or Fallkniven knife over either any day of the week.
 
This topic has the makings for a very interesting discussion. I don't own any Busse knives. The main reason is cost. The other reason is that it is hard to imagine a steel that performs so much better than a well treated 1095 like Esee and Becker use. I'm not a knife expert but these knives do all that I expect of them and I tend to use them very hard. The Busse knives are beautiful, but do they perform that much better than Esee and Becker to justify the cost? I'm not being an ass hat. I honestly don't know the answer to the question because I don't have a Busse to compare to. I am very interested to see some other input.
Cheers
Balding
 
Hey MtnDude,

I am from the Oak Ridge area, living in Colorado right now, Busse is a good knife as well as ESEE, if you don't own a Busse you don't know what you are missing. As far as ESSE goes I have an ESEE Izula II and will some day get the ESEE 6 and maybe the Junglas. I have three Busse knives, the NMFBM, Tank Buster and ASH-1, they all feel great and the steel is awesome. I think they are worth the money you pay but some don't like to spend that much for a knife. bottom line is, if you like it and can afford it, get it! also I don't like all the Busse knives, most I pass up but will buy the ones I like. My Tank Buster has the best ergos of any knife I have ever had, and I have had hundreds over my life time. My NMFBM is a dream to have a big knife with an 11" Blade that is very user friendly and easy to move around. Every time I put this knife in my hand I am just in awe!!!
 
i think both are great companys and offer great products, they both stand behind the product and have quite a fan base, its all up to what your taste is.
 
RickJ,

If you dig em, that's cool. My preference in knives are what they are. I don't like Tactical knives. I'm just a regular outdoorsman who loves to hunt, fish, hike, camp, etc. I'm not in the military or a LEO, so I have no use for knives that are primarily designed for those applications. Just so no one thinks I'm speaking on something I have no experience with, here is my ESEE 6.

014-1.jpg


Again, it's just not my cup of tea. Considering going gold just to get rid of it.
 
Busse seems out of my budget for cutting tools that wouldn't get used often enough relative to their price, especially when the ESEE 1095 HT takes everything I use it for (general outdoors/camp work, whittling, and the like.) I certainly don't buy ESEE knives for their "tactical appeal" but I can recognize a good product and appreciate them in regular use despite some people having that impression. If you don't like the coating a quick strip and patina will have it looking less "tactical" in a jiffy. And maybe I'm the odd one out but I love a good choil for fine work.

Source: I've owned an Izula and a 4 for a year or two now.
 
I've had a couple ESEE knifes and traded 'em both out. Nice blade shape, nice steel, good sheaths, nice warranty, etc... but overall they were very uncomfortable and cumbersome to use. Some of the worst feeling handles I've ever used -- felt like a 2x4 in my hand. Way, way too "boxy."

I thought the choil was a waste of space, too. The handle on the ESEE-4 I had was too short, unless using the choil. So why not use that choil space to instead simply extend the handle to make it usable at all times, and not just when uncomfortably choking up? The handle on my ESEE-6 fit better, but the choil was basically useless for me. Got in the way far too much while wood working. I'd rather have an extra bit of blade there extended right down to the handle than useless choil space. If the blade came to the real handle, you wouldn't ever need to choke up in the first place...

ESEE is a cool company, but their knives aren't my cup of tea. I think they're talked up a bit much, to be honest. Eliminate those choils, and make a more ergonomic handle, and they would be some of the best knives on the market. Just my opinion.

I can't comment on Busse, as I've never handled one.
 
Any comparison with "Busse" should probably also include Swamp Rat And Scrap Yard knives, since they are effectively the Busse "budget" lines.

MtnDude, you might want to try out a Swamp Rat RatManDu. It has great ergonomics, and is a good size for the activities you listed.
 
I have both brands. I don't see where either brand has an 'edge' over the other, for the uses I put knives to. Both tend to have small handles, and I have spent good money to put new handles on examples of both brands.

ESEE and Busse both have their fan boys, which is fine. It does tend to cloud the mind at times, and prevent critical thinking. :D

When performance and price are considered, ESEE comes out on top.


.......and no one but another Busse fan boy even knows what all those letters mean when a proud owner mentions their various Busse blades. :rolleyes:
 
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Mannlicher said:
.......and no one but another Busse fan boy even knows what all those letters mean when a proud owner mentions their various Busse blades. :rolleyes:
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haha.... Yeah I've given up on trying to figure out which friggin knife they're talking about when they say how much they love their Busse NMFLMNOPQRSXYZ Holocaust Mistress, or whatever! :p There's gotta be a better way of naming those things....

However I'd love to own a few of them, if they weren't so dang expensive! I do own a Swamprat Waki, and a Swampwarden, and they may just be my favorite knives of their type that I own. The only ESEE I have is an Izula, which is great for the price.

....hard to compaire the two simply because there's such a huge price difference.
 
I'm just curious here but, what makes an ESEE a tactical knife instead of a good outdoors knife vs a brkt or fallkniven?
IMO all the features are pointed towards outdoor use and away from a tactical use (my definition of that is a knife for fighting or stabbing)

They have a coating to keep rust generally at bay because its a 1095 steel blade.
They have a choil so you can choke up for fine work (I dislike choils usually, but I again don't see how choking up on a blade would make it tactical)
They have micarta handle slabs mostly because the stuff is insanely tough and easily cleaned, but offers decent grip for ungloved hands over g10 when wet IMHO
Most have a full flat grind for good cutting ergos
Most have a good belly for higher pressure cutting, or even skinning.

Ergo's are hit or miss depending on personal tastes, for me an rc3 fits my hand great, where as most spydercos are too small for my wide palms.

IMHO Busses are just too much cash to be a fair competition for ESEE. Now Beckers are a more fair comparison... ;)
 
Busse makes amazing knives. I have two satin models. Not all of them are coated. I like ESEE as well, but Busse really is the shit.
 
I don't think either one is more or less tactical than the other. There are Busses that are clearly designed for fighting, but there are plenty of models that are designed for more woods oriented work and I'm pretty certain that while ESEE may have a tactical appearance with coated blades and desert and black colors, they're just as capable in the woods as any others. I don't own any Busse knives but I do have a few handfuls of Swamp Rat knives and they're F-ing awesome and I have plans to pick up several Busses later this summer. They're tough (maybe indestructible is the word). Some of them have weird ergonomics but for the most part everything they make is comfortable and usable. I don't care for how thick a lot of their models run though. I like the thinner blades on most of the ESEE's and the handles do leave something to be desired, but they're still plenty usable. The 1095 isn't really at the level of INFI or Sr101 but it's no slouch and it's more than enough for most realistic uses.

I guess if you want a fat blade for destroying inanimate objects and have the money, get a Bussekin. If you're on a bit more of a budget, and want a nice thinner blade for the woods (or utility), pick up an ESEE. Neither is a bad choice :)
 
mamba said:
Please state your preference and why between the following two knives:
- 'Busse'
- 'Randall's Adventure & Training ESEE'
Click to expand...

which models?
On the Busse side of things, their Basic line handles are some of the most comfortable I've ever handled.
many of the patterns tend to thick blades and there have been complaints about obtuse edges on some models.
the heat treat is impressive -- and that's most of what you're paying for along with the name.
great warranty & resale values.

ESEE - 1095 is what you get -- coated for rust/corrosion resistance. coating can be removed chemically fairly easy if that's what you want.
I really like the izula 2. I also like the 4 with aftermarket scales and the 6 as it came -- fit my hand perfectly.
excellent heat treat.
great warranty, holds their value fairly well on the resale market, value does not go up like it seems to on a Busse.

There have been several chopping comparisons between the ESEE Junglas and the Busse Bushwhacker Mistress (BWM) that generally end up in a fairly dead heat for function.

Busse has more variants, but they only come in limited runs.
ESEE keeps costs down by only producing a limited number of models/variants.

before I can tell you which is better, i need more info about what comparison you want made.
how are you going to use the knife (do-all hiking/camping knife, food prep, chopping up trees, etc?)
what size blade do you want?
are you including Busse-kin? (Swamp Rat & Scrapyard)
do you have a price range or is this a "hypothetical if $$ was no object" kind of question?
 
1066vik said:
which models?
On the Busse side of things, their Basic line handles are some of the most comfortable I've ever handled.
many of the patterns tend to thick blades and there have been complaints about obtuse edges on some models.
the heat treat is impressive -- and that's most of what you're paying for along with the name.
great warranty & resale values.

ESEE - 1095 is what you get -- coated for rust/corrosion resistance. coating can be removed chemically fairly easy if that's what you want.
I really like the izula 2. I also like the 4 with aftermarket scales and the 6 as it came -- fit my hand perfectly.
excellent heat treat.
great warranty, holds their value fairly well on the resale market, value does not go up like it seems to on a Busse.

There have been several chopping comparisons between the ESEE Junglas and the Busse Bushwhacker Mistress (BWM) that generally end up in a fairly dead heat for function.

Busse has more variants, but they only come in limited runs.
ESEE keeps costs down by only producing a limited number of models/variants.

before I can tell you which is better, i need more info about what comparison you want made.
how are you going to use the knife (do-all hiking/camping knife, food prep, chopping up trees, etc?)
what size blade do you want?
are you including Busse-kin? (Swamp Rat & Scrapyard)
do you have a price range or is this a "hypothetical if $$ was no object" kind of question?
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+1

That couldn't be said better. Also, the Busse-kin companies like Scrapyard and Swamp Rat offer Busse like quality at usually a lesser price, but their blades have to be coated as SR-101 can rust. I like ESEE too, the original scales on the ESEE-4, leaves room for improvement, but the aftermarket scales from the knife connection greatly improves this, and I hear they will make aftermarket scales for the Izula II in the future, as well.
 
I thought the choil was a waste of space, too. The handle on the ESEE-4 I had was too short, unless using the choil. So why not use that choil space to instead simply extend the handle to make it usable at all times, and not just when uncomfortably choking up? The handle on my ESEE-6 fit better, but the choil was basically useless for me. Got in the way far too much while wood working. I'd rather have an extra bit of blade there extended right down to the handle than useless choil space. If the blade came to the real handle, you wouldn't ever need to choke up in the first place...
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Spot on observation. Guys are cashing in on the ESEE 3 & 4 aftermarket handles to replace the crap handles they put on. The Junglas is the only one that has an ample handle imo.

I have one Busse purchase that arrived dull as a butter knife. It felt good in hand but was dull, overpriced and I didn't know how to mount the cardboard sheath on my belt. :(
 
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