Busse v Randall's Adventure & Training ESEE

Used to think that busse where to expensive for what you got...then again I used to think the same thing about CRK knives....catch my drift. Busse are awsome blades. Ive had a few now and giong to send payment on another one today.
 
i absolutely love both.. esee is more affordable and i believe they are worth alot more than u pay for.. busse's are defiantly way tougher and alot better steel.. toughness that most of us civilians wouldn't need (absolutely great for military applications).. if price is no option busse for sure!!
 
oh damn, of all the topics to get dragged into three months later.

comments withdrawn. :D
 
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IMHO, BUSSE INFI isn't all it's cracked up to be (in one area) and that is "holding" the edge applied to the blade. YMMV. :)
 
I never did get what was so special about a busse that makes it outrageously expensive. Personally I'm a huge fan of ESEE. First of all they have a no questions asked warranty which is huge for me. I have an ESEE 6 that is my go to backpacking knife and it sees a lot of hard use and it has never failed me in any way.
 
I prefer Busse depending on the model and I like them stripped. I like the ergos of the models I prefer such as the Fusion Battle Mistress, the Badger Attack TAC and the new BOSS (Busse Old School Series) line. The Anorexic Badger Attack is my grail but nigh unobtainable at a decent price. While their name leads one to believe they are merely tactical, anyone who has real knowledge of the Busse line knows quite different. As far as comments to them being too expensive, that is only comparative to what a person is used to. There are many, many other brands more expensive. They are generally out of my range, but I am happy to have the couple left that I do. Overall, they have a bulletproof warranty at any price and keep their value. I just like using mine and am not inclined to be kind to my blades.
 
I would say ESEE, for the price mainly. You can pick up a Junglas(love mine), a 6, and a 3mil for what one Busse costs. And not be afraid to scratch 'em up. My ESEE's see a lot of hard use and in no way "safe queens".
 
cziv said:
I have one Busse purchase that arrived dull as a butter knife. It felt good in hand but was dull, overpriced and I didn't know how to mount the cardboard sheath on my belt. :(
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You didn't know Busse knives come without a sheath? And you figured it was overpriced only after you bought it? Me thinks you didn't really research what you bought. Happens to me occasionally too ;) Although, I don't blame makers in that case.

cziv said:
IMHO, BUSSE INFI isn't all it's cracked up to be (in one area) and that is "holding" the edge applied to the blade.
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Based on previous comment, looks like you didn't apply much of the edge to begin with. Still, INFI will do what it was designed to do, hold very good edge on hard use knife. it's not CPM 10V, and no, it won't perform well if you grind 10 per side ege. But at Busse recommended 40 inclusive edge, for heavy duty use it's really hard to beat, literally and figuratively. 1095 is certainly not in the same league.
 
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Gator97 said:
You didn't know Busse knives come without a sheath? And you figured it was overpriced only after you bought it? Me thinks you didn't really research what you bought. Happens to me occasionally too ;) Although, I don't blame makers in that case.


Based on previous comment, looks like you didn't apply much of the edge to begin with. Still, INFI will do what it was designed to do, hold very good edge on hard use knife. it's not CPM 10V, and no, it won't perform well if you grind 10 per side ege. But at Busse recommended 40 inclusive edge, for heavy duty use it's really hard to beat, literally and figuratively. 1095 is certainly not in the same league.
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Yeah I knew there was no sheath Gator. :D Just kidding. Anyway about the price - it wasn't that bad until the lady told me how much it cost. I live nearby and got slammed with a big state tax bill and the shipping was a profit maker for the distance (didn't care for that either), but I bought it and was pleased as puch with it until I found out that other than the smaple piece of paper that came with my BWM, the knife wouldn't slice paper! :(

I posted in the Busse forum and they told me to put my own edge on it. C'mon - no sheath, sharpen it yourself and I got so p*ssed that I sold it and luckily got exactly what I paid for it back. I bought the Junglas at the same time and it's had 2 years and many outings with it, it's still a heck of a lt sharper than the BWM was. Not to mention a sheath that rivaled the Busse sheathmakers' work and would have cost me the price of another Junglas - just for the Busse sheath.

One thing though - the balance, fit & finish of the Busse with upgraded G-10 grips was a dream.
 
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I have both brands, well for the esee i only have the junglas, and I gotta say they are both great. Unfortunately, Esee is a bit overpriced for the steel, and yes people say that their heat treat is "superior" to other 1095, but I dont really see it. Compared to a becker, esee quality is pretty much the same. Busse however is amazing. Yeah they are freaking expensive, but each knife you buy will last you a lifetime even if you put it to the extreme use. I prefer quality.
 
cziv said:
...I bought it and was pleased as puch with it until I found out that other than the smaple piece of paper that came with my BWM, the knife wouldn't slice paper! :(
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Well, I've participated in numerous threads about NIB sharpness, and I can't say anything new here, but I honestly don't understand how dull NIB edge can affect my decision whether or not to keep the knife. Don't get me wrong, I've complained my share about uneven bevels and dull NIB edges from pretty much every maker, but in the end, the edge is perishable goods, it will be dull if you use the knife.

cziv said:
I posted in the Busse forum and they told me to put my own edge on it.
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:) If they didn't tell you that, and if the edge was super duper sharp, do you think you'd never need sharpening? You do have to put your own edge, eventually.

cziv said:
JUnglas at the same time and it was and 2 years and many outings with it, it's still a heck of a lt sharper than the BWM was.
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You never sharpened junglas in 2 years?
 
Gator97 said:
You never sharpened junglas in 2 years?
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No just stropped it and looked for any dings, prepared with a full set of Dia-folds but it hasn't need any more sharpening yet. I've chopped down a few huge bon-fire size piles of saplings with it too.
 
cziv said:
No just stropped it and looked for any dings, prepared with a full set of Dia-folds but it hasn't need any more sharpening yet. I've chopped down a few huge bon-fire size piles of saplings with it too.
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Yep, my junglas doesn't need a true sharpening even after having many outings where it has fought trees.

Besides, there is no steel named "INFI". Call crucible or carpenter and ask them to make you some INFI, they won't know what in the hell you are talking about. I was talking to a guy as the Busse booth at blade show that said INFI is just busse's name for 52100. Could be true, could be false. But what I've seen in regards to INFI's edge holding, I'd say it's true.
 
Translash said:
I have both brands, well for the esee i only have the junglas, and I gotta say they are both great. Unfortunately, Esee is a bit overpriced for the steel, and yes people say that their heat treat is "superior" to other 1095, but I dont really see it. Compared to a becker, esee quality is pretty much the same.
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Keep in mind, ESEE knives come with what would be arguably considered some of the best OEM sheaths to come with production knives. Especially compared to Beckers, where the knives are probably just as good, but come with less then awesome sheaths. So I would definitely have to disagree with your opinion that ESEEs are overpriced.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Yep, my junglas doesn't need a true sharpening even after having many outings where it has fought trees.

Besides, there is no steel named "INFI". Call crucible or carpenter and ask them to make you some INFI, they won't know what in the hell you are talking about. I was talking to a guy as the Busse booth at blade show that said INFI is just busse's name for 52100. Could be true, could be false. But what I've seen in regards to INFI's edge holding, I'd say it's true.
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A pretty popular YouTube reviewer called it 52100 in a review I saw the other day or maybe he said similar to 52100, as he was alluding to the non-existence of a real steel called "infi."

I don't care really let them call it and believe it's kryptonite if they want to. I don't have any Busses anymore and don't have a quarrel with BUSSE lovers. :)
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Yep, my junglas doesn't need a true sharpening even after having many outings where it has fought trees.

Besides, there is no steel named "INFI". Call crucible or carpenter and ask them to make you some INFI, they won't know what in the hell you are talking about. I was talking to a guy as the Busse booth at blade show that said INFI is just busse's name for 52100. Could be true, could be false. But what I've seen in regards to INFI's edge holding, I'd say it's true.
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Nope.

Busse's version of 52100 is Sr101. Used by Swamprat, and occasionally Scrapyard, not Busse (Infi).

The makeup of Infi is proprietary. You can't order it from another manufacturer because it is proprietary. You can, however see the actual specific chemical makeup of Infi if you want. There are several good threads that include the chemical formula. That is only half the story. You get that chemical balance right, and still not have INFI. You have to also figure out their heat treat process to get there.

V .36%
Cr 8.25%
Fe 87.79%
Co .95%
Ni .74%
Mo 1.3%
C .5%
N .11%

I can give anyone Wiz Bang super steel, and if they don't know how to get the most out of it (or have the correct equipment to do so), it won't perform like a Wiz Bang super steel.

Even if I gave you pre measured, all the ingredients to make the worlds best soufflé, if you aren't a trained chef, you are not going to make the worlds best souffle. In fact, you probably won't even make something edible.

Process to mix, when to mix, moisture control, temp, time, etc etc.

Same with steel. 52100 is a great knife steel. Lots of custom makers use it, that does not mean I can hand you a bar identical to what the best custom makers use, and you will get a great performing steel, (heck, even if you have all the equipment you need).

Same for any steel.

I have been told that Infi is similar chemically to a steel used for chipper shredder blades. It has been said it is like A8, but modified by adding and subtracting chemicals.

A8:
Cr 4.75-5.50 Chromium
Ni 0.30 Nickel
Mo 1.15-1.65 molybdenum
C 0.50-0.60 Carbon
Mn 0.50 Manganese
Si 0.75-1.10 Silicon
W 1.00-1.50 Tungsten
Cu 0.25 Copper
P 0.03 Phosphorus
S 0.03 Sulfur

By comparing the two, I see elements and chemicals that are not shared, and some that are included in Infi that is not present in A8. I am no metallurgist, but I see a few differences.


INFI is so great because of how it performs. It performs the way it does, not because the metal is magic or it has stuff in it that no one can duplicate. It performs great because it has a specific chemical composition, and a heat treat that has been designed to give it the best performance. Busse (and kin Swamprat and Scrapyard) do excellent heat treat on all the steels they use!

As to the OP's question. I own and use Busse. I only have 6 (although I have owned more than 12).

I don't own any ESSE. They represent a real bargain. You can't beat their warranty, especially at their price point. I think it is telling, that many Busse owners (that own way more than I do), still lay down money, and love ESSE. I have held a few models, and felt that the handles were a bit blocky. That would not deter me from buying one, because I own sandpaper! (and a small belt sander too). Not hard to fix that. Plus, the handles are removable, and you can add spacers if you want! The steel is 1095, with a great heat treat. I don't own an ESSE, but I do own 1095 steel, and it is just fine. (I also own a lot of other steels that don't perform near as well as good 1095, but I still like them, and use them). I feel that 1095 takes a great "bity" edge. Very easy to get hair jumping sharp (as is infi). Infi has better edge retention, lateral strength, and excellent stain resistance.

But, you pay a premium for that (and the handle treatments etc). That is worth it to me, but I still like knives out of more basic steels. (Including 5160, 1095, and other 10xx steels).

Just buy what you like, and use it.
 
I have either sold or traded every knife I had after using my esee 6, I then orderd my Izula and the Hest. Most comfortable knives I ever used. spent four weeks in the back country of Montana and they never let me down.
 
EK20 said:
Keep in mind, ESEE knives come with what would be arguably considered some of the best OEM sheaths to come with production knives. Especially compared to Beckers, where the knives are probably just as good, but come with less then awesome sheaths. So I would definitely have to disagree with your opinion that ESEEs are overpriced.
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To everyone their own. Even minus the sheath, which I wil average for a nice Junglas kydex sheath to be worth about 50 bucks, it comes out to be about $100-105 dollars for the knife alone. Becker bk9 $72-75 on amazon with crappy sheath. That's a decent 25-30 dollar difference for the knives. Im not saying the Junglas is bad. Like I said, I have one myself and I'll admit of all my knives never have I held a knife with such great balance and ergonomics. The statement "extension of your own hand" holds true with this knife. Maybe that is worth the extra bucks? It's justifiable.
 
Translash said:
To everyone their own. Even minus the sheath, which I wil average for a nice Junglas kydex sheath to be worth about 50 bucks, it comes out to be about $100-105 dollars for the knife alone. Becker bk9 $72-75 on amazon with crappy sheath. That's a decent 25-30 dollar difference for the knives. Im not saying the Junglas is bad. Like I said, I have one myself and I'll admit of all my knives never have I held a knife with such great balance and ergonomics. The statement "extension of your own hand" holds true with this knife. Maybe that is worth the extra bucks? It's justifiable.
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Yeah, I am definitely willing to pay more for the better sheath and handle slabs. Upgrading a Becker with the micarta handles and an aftermarket sheath will put them right on par with ESEE. I'm willing to skip all those extra steps with one purchase.
 
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