Busse vs Spartan Blades vs Esee

[shqxk]

Whenever someone ask a question about Busse versus XXX the answer is Busse win, every time kidding.

 

[GREENJACKET]

I have every respect for Busse Blades. But you pack it, you carry it.

 

[Cobalt]

The more I've gotten used to infi and sr-101, the less impressed I've become with 1095. Well done

I certainly wasn't trying to slam another steel. Not all 1095 is equal. I do believe that some HT better than others and ESEE is in that category.

My point was that I did not expect repair or replacement as I intentionally damaged the knife and I told them so. They fixed it anyway. No calling me names or birching at me. I personally did not think they needed to fix it. I don't think warranty should cover intentional stupidity and I never asked them to replace or repair it. I was willing to take the loss.

 

[kcwater]

I certainly wasn't trying to slam another steel. Not all 1095 is equal. I do believe that some HT better than others and ESEE is in that category.

My point was that I did not expect repair or replacement as I intentionally damaged the knife and I told them so. They fixed it anyway. No calling me names or birching at me. I personally did not think they needed to fix it. I don't think warranty should cover intentional stupidity and I never asked them to replace or repair it. I was willing to take the loss.

They have outstanding customer service. Esee does too, as they show on their site there way a guy who destroyed a knife intentionally by shooting it with a variety of calibers. They still replaced the knife. I believe you're right about heat treat.

 

[craytab]

Saying all Busse knives are X is a rather inaccurate blanket statement. Busse and kin have made thousands of different variations of their knives. If you can't find one that suites your needs then you aren't looking. One of my most slicey knives is a busse.

Busse, Esee, and Spartan all make great knives. I own some from all these companies. Comparing them is difficult because their purposes are different. Love all the ones I own though:

Just as an aside, I did the same thing with a 1095 crovan blade and it snapped in half in under 2 minutes.

Forgive me if I am wrong Cobalt but shouldn't the 1095v version of that knife be market USA? The unmarked one I believe is the foreign made SK5 version.

 

[Icky Thump]

Depends on who sharpens it at the Busse shop. When you do order a BM be sure to ask Beef to sharpen it for you. He is the only one there who can magically put a scalpel sharp edge on such a thick knife.

Denny puts a hell of an edge on as well.

 

[TommyGun56]

The original question was Spartan vs Busse, 2 completely different knives-The Spartan blades are designed as lightweight stainless steel blades to be used in Combat Environments usually mounted on KevLar vests-Very Lightweight, I am a big fan of Busse knives, they are without question my Favorite, indestructible and beautifully designed, if however I was deploying I would prefer a stainless steel lightweight knife. Knives are seldom used for anything more than cutting rope or opening cans nowadays, (Basic Tasks) In a Hostile environment. zombies do not stand around waiting to be stabbed! Spartan's fill this role!!

 

[DPC]

Busse for outdoors and """""""""""survival""""""""""""""" and Spartan for deployments and combat.

I've used a Boss Jack with great success at expeditions and long walking travels.

Harsey's designs have the clear advantage combat-wise, just take a look at the Breed...

Also they do look like they're well suited for vest or shoulder carry, something not many Busses can do.

However you also have nasty Busse designs like the Flying Mojo and lightweight knives like the Basic line....


Honestly. If I ever was going to be deployed, I'd choose ESEE as my first knife. It just hurts too much to loose or have to ditch a Busse or a Spartan if chance arises.

I only take the cool knives when I know for sure there isnt a chance for them to be lost, other than by accident of course.

 

[Cobalt]

Forgive me if I am wrong Cobalt but shouldn't the 1095v version of that knife be market USA? The unmarked one I believe is the foreign made SK5 version.

Well, maybe, but when I got it, it was advertised as 1095crovan. I am pretty sure that they were not doing SK5 when I got that one. But who knows. Either way, it isn't so much the steel as it is the HT.

 

[Tachead7075]

Well, maybe, but when I got it, it was advertised as 1095crovan. I am pretty sure that they were not doing SK5 when I got that one. But who knows. Either way, it isn't so much the steel as it is the HT.

Correct, it is Kabar's standard 1095crovan. It is also not foreign made, it is made in the USA(although it is weird that it doesnt say Olean, NY maybe it is the older version?). I agree it is a HT issue. Kabar doesnt have the most consistent heat treatment and there are many examples of similar issues all over the internet. Kabar is not in the same class as the three knife brands that this thread is about imo. They have less consistent/inferior heat treatment, a lower fit and finish, and are mass produced by a huge corporation(Cutco) and are sold at Walmart. They are still better quality then some of the lower cost brands however and make a decent product at an OK price point. But, they are far from legendary imo and likely wouldnt have near the following if it wasnt for their price points(more people buy cheaper knives), Military history, and them making many knifes deigned by some great designers(Becker, Hinderer, TDI, Johnson, exc.). Of course this is my opinion and YMMV.

 

[craytab]

Correct, it is Kabar's standard 1095crovan. It is also not foreign made, it is made in the USA. I agree it is a HT issue. Kabar doesnt have the most consistent heat treatment and there are many examples of similar issues all over the internet. Kabar is not in the same class as the three knife brands that this thread is about imo. They have less consistent/inferior heat treatment, a lower fit and finish, and are mass produced by a huge corporation(Cutco) and are sold at Walmart. They are still better quality then some of the lower cost brands however and make a decent product at an OK price point. But, they are far from legendary imo and likely wouldnt have near the following if it wasnt for their price points(more people buy cheaper knives), Military history, and them making many knifes deigned by some great designers(Becker, Hinderer, TDI, Johnson, exc.). Of course this is my opinion and YMMV.

Okay, so lets get this cleared up. The big kabar zombie knives have two iterations. First was the lower cost SK5 versions that included the war sword. SK5 is indeed a foreign made steel. Then, when they added the swabbie and the cleaver to the line in 2013 I believe they switched to all USA production and 1095crovan for the larger blades of the line including the war sword being discussed. Visually the way to tell the difference (even with the war sword) is they will have a US flag on the presentation side of the blade and that flair thing on the butt of the handle. From kabar's website: http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/139. The blade in cobalt's picture looks like the SK5 version to me. I followed this line after they said they were going to US production because the Swabbie looked cool. The price was high though. Now that the zombie craze in knives is fizzled out you can find them for ~$70 which considering the size of the blade, USA production, and 1095crovan steel is a heck of a deal IMO.

 

[Tachead7075]

Okay, so lets get this cleared up. The big kabar zombie knives have two iterations. First was the lower cost SK5 versions that included the war sword. SK5 is indeed a foreign made steel. Then, when they added the swabbie and the cleaver to the line in 2013 I believe they switched to all USA production and 1095crovan for the larger blades of the line including the war sword being discussed. Visually the way to tell the difference (even with the war sword) is they will have a US flag on the presentation side of the blade and that flair thing on the butt of the handle. The blade in cobalt's picture looks like the SK5 version to me. I followed this line after they said they were going to US production because the Swabbie looked cool. The price was high though. Now that the zombie craze in knives is fizzled out you can find them for ~$70 which considering the size of the blade, USA production, and 1095crovan steel is a heck of a deal IMO.

Lol, I added that it might be an older version just as you posted. Thanks for further clarification. Even the old SK5s ones were US made though no? They just used SK5 vs 1095 I thought. Either way, their 1095 blades likely wouldnt have performed much better. Their heat treatment just isnt well dialed in and/or consistent judging by how many people have failures with them. I dont think Kabar can compare to any of the brands in this thread including Esee. The other companies are smaller and just have much better QA/QC and owners that take pride in trying their best to ensure that every blade that leaves their shop is as close to perfect as possible. Kabar(Cutco) is just a giant corporation/assembly line most concerned with profit margin imo.

 

[Tachead7075]

O, I forgot to mention that is an amazing collection you have there Crazytab:thumbup:

 

[KingMC]

Lol, I added that it might be an older version just as you posted. Thanks for further clarification. Even the old SK5s ones were US made though no? They just used SK5 vs 1095 I thought. Either way, their 1095 blades likely wouldnt have performed much better. Their heat treatment just isnt well dialed in and/or consistent judging by how many people have failures with them. I dont think Kabar can compare to any of the brands in this thread including Esee. The other companies are smaller and just have much better QA/QC and owners that take pride in trying their best to ensure that every blade that leaves their shop is as close to perfect as possible. Kabar(Cutco) is just a giant corporation/assembly line most concerned with profit margin imo.

At an average of 1/4 of the price of Busse or Spartan, you can't ask them to compare in QC.

As for ESEE, they are comparable in just about everything with ESEE using more expensive accessory materials that drive their price higher.

I have seen very few Ka-Bar failures that were accidental, even the one in this thread was done knowing it would damage the blade.

 

[craytab]

Lol, I added that it might be an older version just as you posted. Thanks for further clarification. Even the old SK5s ones were US made though no? They just used SK5 vs 1095 I thought. Either way, their 1095 blades likely wouldnt have performed much better. Their heat treatment just isnt well dialed in and/or consistent judging by how many people have failures with them. I dont think Kabar can compare to any of the brands in this thread including Esee. The other companies are smaller and just have much better QA/QC and owners that take pride in trying their best to ensure that every blade that leaves their shop is as close to perfect as possible. Kabar(Cutco) is just a giant corporation/assembly line most concerned with profit margin imo.

Looks to me like Taiwan. It depends on where you look too. Knife center has the SK5 version listed as USA made. In pictures on the web you can find the tang stamped Taiwan. Also, in various purchase reviews people complain about paying for the USA version but getting one stamped Taiwan.

 

[Tachead7075]

Looks to me like Taiwan. It depends on where you look too. Knife center has the SK5 version listed as USA made. In pictures on the web you can find the tang stamped Taiwan. Also, in various purchase reviews people complain about paying for the USA version but getting one stamped Taiwan.

Thanks again for the added info. It sucks when retailers dont list the right info. Not that it matters that much unless you really want US made anyway though. Some of the overseas production plant/makers often produce a better product. A good example is Spyderco. Their Taichung made knives are their nicest made ones and even have a nicer fit and finish then the ones made in Golden. It wouldnt be very hard to beat the quality coming out of Kabar's US plant either from my experience. It would be interesting to compare one made in Taiwan vs. one made in their US plant.

But, lets get back to the OPers topic of Busse vs Spartan vs Esee(Edit: I see the OP added Kabar to his post so I guess we still are on topic). They are all great brands imo. I dont think you could go wrong with any of them myself. Esee and Busse are better hard use knives and geared towards that use where as, Spartan is more geared towards combat but, are still very tough. Price wise Esee is the best value imo and are readily available. Spartan's are readily available as well and are moderately priced. Busse's are a bit harder to get your hands on and are at a higher price point but, are likely the toughest and most unique due to their limited numbers and availability.

 

[Tachead7075]

At an average of 1/4 of the price of Busse or Spartan, you can't ask them to compare in QC.

As for ESEE, they are comparable in just about everything with ESEE using more expensive accessory materials that drive their price higher.

I have seen very few Ka-Bar failures that were accidental, even the one in this thread was done knowing it would damage the blade.

The OP asked us to compare.

I disagree, I have several knives from Esee and Kabar and the Esee's not only have better/more expensive accessory materials they also have much better fit in finish(including more uniform primary grinds, better final sharpenings, a more durable coating, nicer/sharper laser etching, and a much nicer finish on the steel in general with less tooling marks, smoother flat surfaces, and better finished edges. They also have a better no questions asked warranty and I trust Esee's heat treatment and consistency much more.

You arent looking very hard then. There are examples all over the net including in the Kabar and Becker forums. Plus, whether accidental or not, a failure is a failure. All knives fail from time to time including these Esee's but, I personally think Kabar's fail much more. I would bet that if you destruction tested a BK16 vs and Esee 4(just for instance), the Kabar would fail first. I would also bet on Esee's heat treatment being more consistent and reliable just because of the fact that they are a smaller tighter run ship so to speak. Plus, if your Esee fails it gets replaced even if it was abused, that is not the case with Kabar.

Kabar is just a mass produced brand made on a large assembly line by a big corporation. You can get them at Walmart. Although they are one of the better brands available at department stores, they often fall short in the fit and finish departments to some of the other dept store brands in my experience even if their designs are often better. They make a pretty good knife at a pretty good price point and their designs are often awesome because of who designs them but, they dont compare to these three other brands imo and are in a different class.

 

[Cobalt]

At an average of 1/4 of the price of Busse or Spartan, you can't ask them to compare in QC.

As for ESEE, they are comparable in just about everything with ESEE using more expensive accessory materials that drive their price higher.

I have seen very few Ka-Bar failures that were accidental, even the one in this thread was done knowing it would damage the blade.

Yes, I was intentionally damaging this knife along with the busse and a couple of 3V blades. My intent was to see if I could initiate crack propagation through the steel and cause the exact failure that happened in the kabar. I succeeded there. I did not succeed with the Busse or Nathan's 3V blades. They indented and then stopped taking damage. I knew that the kabar would break based on past experience. I knew the busse would not. I then tested the 3V blades to see if they would or not. They passed.

However, I do believe that ESEE's heat treat is far beyond kabar. I have seen ESEE 1095 blades take on much more damage. There is videos of it. No knock on kabar. They are at a lower price point.

 

[KingMC]

The OP asked us to compare.

I disagree, I have several knives from Esee and Kabar and the Esee's not only have better/more expensive accessory materials they also have much better fit in finish(including more uniform primary grinds, better final sharpenings, a more durable coating, nicer/sharper laser etching, and a much nicer finish on the steel in general with less tooling marks, smoother flat surfaces, and better finished edges. They also have a better no questions asked warranty and I trust Esee's heat treatment and consistency much more.

You arent looking very hard then. There are examples all over the net including in the Kabar and Becker forums. Plus, whether accidental or not, a failure is a failure. All knives fail from time to time including these Esee's but, I personally think Kabar's fail much more. I would bet that if you destruction tested a BK16 vs and Esee 4(just for instance), the Kabar would fail first. I would also bet on Esee's heat treatment being more consistent and reliable just because of the fact that they are a smaller tighter run ship so to speak. Plus, if your Esee fails it gets replaced even if it was abused, that is not the case with Kabar.

Kabar is just a mass produced brand made on a large assembly line by a big corporation. You can get them at Walmart. Although they are one of the better brands available at department stores, they often fall short in the fit and finish departments to some of the other dept store brands in my experience even if their designs are often better. They make a pretty good knife at a pretty good price point and their designs are often awesome because of who designs them but, they dont compare to these three other brands imo and are in a different class.

I see we're going by personal experiences here, so I'll just say based on *my* experiences Ka-Bar has far outperformed ESEE in terms of F&F and design.

*you* have had bad experiences with Ka-Bar, just like others have had bad experiences with ESEE, neither of which affect the companies as a whole. All companies have knives break, I've honestly seen more pictures of ESEEs broken like the picture in this thread than I have of Ka-Bars/Beckers, and I hang out in the places where just about every Ka-Bar/Becker breaking gets shared. Ka-Bar's problem is not that they have poor QC (if their blem knives are anything to go by, they don't), they just have people buying their knives expecting Busse levels of F&F at a fraction of the price.

I'm not here to bash ESEE, not am I here to say that Ka-Bar is perfect, but you have certainly shared stories of the bad luck you've had with Ka-Bars and then sufferering from some confirmation bias allowing you to assume that your experiences are the norm.

 

[B.F.U]

They have outstanding customer service. Esee does too, as they show on their site there way a guy who destroyed a knife intentionally by shooting it with a variety of calibers. They still replaced the knife. I believe you're right about heat treat.

What is displayed on their site for marketing purposes does not match with their actual business practices.

They also omit that the handle, hardware, and sheath are not covered under warranty.

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