Buyer Beware - Ebay kits.

A

averageguy

BANNED
Feedback: +0 / =0 / -0
Joined
Jun 10, 1999
Messages
1,599
I received an email the other day from an ebayer wondering about the authenticity of a knife he had purchased.
I posted in the past about rehandled Pakistani blades being offered as customs. More difficult to spot are kit blades.
There are two forms of kits making their way around ebay and being sold as "custom", one is a small hunter the other a rather large bowie. The hunter shown below sold for $300.00. It is a popular kit blade from Jantz, the Apache Hunter.
Given any number of "custom" makers are grinding their blades using computer aided machinery or even outsourcing the blades - you may rightly ask, "What is the difference?". Not much perhaps but you should be aware of this.
I've made a point over the years of keeping up with kits so I don't make an expensive mistake and you should too.

519062-big.jpg


519063-big.jpg


Here's the Outback bowie from jantz.

522077-big.jpg


 
I personally think there is a large difference between using CNCed or outsourced blades and using kits. Kit blades are completely finished, icluding the polish and edge. All a person has to do is attach a handle and make a sheath. There is a lot more work to finishing a CNCed or outsourced rough cut blade.

Thanks for the heads up. People have been passing kit knives off as customs on ebay for many years. It is definitely a case of buyer beware.
 
whats the difference??

imho a whole lot, the main thing being a kit knife isnt worth anywhere near $300, probably not $100 either lol.

a good thing to watch out for i agree.
 
To bad this didn't stay in the General Discussion forum - I was really hoping to flesh out a debate that would have been enlightening for all here at bladeforums. Not only as a discussion about kit blades but a discussion of modern custom knifemaking.

How about Engnath blades (Engnath is sorely missed - I believe had he lived longer he would have been widely recognized as the greatest grinder ever, a distinction he merits even now). These blades weren't finished or edged - more than a few recognized makers passed these off as their own early in their career.

An assistant could finish and edge these - or why not use a machine. I don't see a big difference. Soon, I suspect, only the forgers will be left offering truly handmade knives.

The work done on that Apache Hunter blade is easily the equivalent to the work done by a "true custom maker" using a CNC blade.
It's been polished, filed, likely re-edged and very carefully handled and the "maker" made his own sheath.


That's right - it's not worth $300.00 to me and neither is any knife that was ground with computer aided machines.

Welcome to the 21st century - it is a "mid-tech" world where few knives will truly qualify as handmade.
 
..... IF it was initially stated that the blade was premade.

Looks to me that the kit maker spent a LOT of quality time on the knife and the sheath. There is nothing inherently wrong with any kit knife. It will function nicely. What is wrong is misrepresentation.

Stating that the knife isn't worth $300 is also bogus. I know of kit makers who have sold their kit knives--as stated--for $1000. Maybe not to you, but it's been accomplished. More power to the seller as long as they are upfront.

Sounds like this seller disguised his kit as a custom. And marked the blade. Both hallmarks of misrepresentation. This hurts all true custom makers.

Ebay link?

Coop
 
I know of kit makers who have sold their kit knives--as stated--for $1000.
Click to expand...

Makers -- plural???

That's pretty amazing. In general finished kit knives go for what the kit costs or less.
 
"That would be appropriate in Custom & Handmade Knives."

A discussion like this merits the broadest possible exposure on these forums.
 
It would be tough for the "average" ebay user to pick out a kit. It is frustrating all the people out there who misrepresent knives--makes the honest ones look bad.
 
Cougar Allen said:
Makers -- plural???

That's pretty amazing. In general finished kit knives go for what the kit costs or less.
Click to expand...
One maker. Yes. I used the term loosely. Actually 'maker' in this instance is the wrong term. Customizer is appropriate. Corrected.

'Finished' folder kits only go for $40? Depends on the work. I've seen them go for more regularly.

I'm still awaiting the link for this seller on eBay. That's when we can truly make a decision on how this was handled.

We all should know, that it's not what is said on eBay that bears interpretation, it's what is unstated that is MOST important. ;)

Coop
 
BTW, I have spent countless hours in past threads on this forum and on another forum that I moderate (Kit Knife forum on Knife Network) SLAMMING unscrupulous 'makers' who mislabel and attempt to pass off kit knives as Customs (Another generic word.... :rolleyes:)

By no means am I supporting this behavior. But... I have always waved the flag loudly and high that accountability is most important. If a kit knife 'maker' handfinishes his knife to a high degree and states it made as such, they can attempt to price it at whatever the traffic will bear.

Whether it's CNC or kits, there is still a goodly amount of hand finishing left to complete a knife, and that has value. I see the above knife as being one of the best 'Kits' out there. Nice.

But... once the seller crosses the line without full disclosure, it's a whole new ballgame. Having that mark on the blade is a big step in that direction.

Coop
 
I agree with coop; disclosure is the most important part. As long as the buyer knows that he is getting a preground "kit" blade the maker can charge whatever he likes if the buyer will pay it. As for the work, of course it is less work but I don't think that necessarily means that the maker didn't put in a good amount of work into the knife. To really get a good polish on those blades you still have to do some finishing to the blade and he still put in the work on the handle making too. Personally, I started out with kit knives for fun just for my own collection; the only downfall that I saw in making knives for myself it that they really don't make as many "kit" knives in higher quality steels (of course, there are some exceptions); but for 440C knives there are hundreds of options that I think still make great knives. I also think that it takes months to years of practice grinding your own blades to reach the grinding precision in the "kit" blades. I do think that the engraving your own initials on the blade is a no no though; that borders on misrepresentation (maybe you could put the initials on the handle if you want people to know that it was you who made the knife). I think it would be interesting to see a fulltime "knifemaker" that used kit knives as his base. With the savings in time and cost of grinding you would be able to sell your knives for much cheaper and with a hugely faster pace of making knives; if you could get a customer base may actually be able to make a better profit than if you ground your own blades. Bottom line though, just make sure the consumer knows the truth about the original blade.
 
Coop - I deleted this link, I may try to go back and find it. He was definitely passing it off as his own - as do most of these kit makers. The Bowie was on ebay when I started the thread.
 
I would really like to see this link as well? matter o fact something is just not right about this post of course that only my gut feeling??

Spencer
 
"I would really like to see this link as well? matter o fact something is just not right about this post of course that only my gut feeling??"

You think I'm lying? That's the first time I've been called a liar on the forums. I'm not quite sure how to react - but I am pissed.
I've been on Bladeforums and Knifeforums since 1998 - even though my profile here shows '99.
I'm going to try to watch my mouth but don't insinuate this again.










Coop - the auction for that hunter is over three weeks old, you wont find it. I kept the link for quite a long time but deleted it about a week ago when I was organizing my favorites.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top