Call for Charpy toughness samples

Natlek, you might have missed this, but we are testing steels commonly used in knifemaking, as heat treated by knifemakers. The Rc numbers and toughness we are getting aren’t to guide industry, but to be a reference point for knifemakers. So far the only result that was surprising to me was the cast cru-wear. My experience suggests that it is tougher than the results we got. I did a repeat sample to check for error.
 
Larrin said:
It is a common myth that high alloy steels are more sensitive to temperature than low alloy steels. Perpetuated by those heat treating in a forge to make themselves feel better.
M4-vs-O1.jpg
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Weren’t the air hardening steels designed to simplify heat treating? My experience suggests that the hardest steels to heat treat are the water hardening steels like Hitachi white and W2. My testing with W2 shows being off by more than 20f decreases performance.
 
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DevinT said:
You are a troll and will continue to argue. Reading is one thing and doing is another.

That is hilarious to suggest that I am the one that should do more reading. You continue to prove that you know very little about knife making and heat treating.

If you don’t like this thread, then stay away from it.

Hoss
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Really ? I m troll ? Just because I learn about pros/cons of different HT oven from books ?
Reading is one thing and doing is another. Really , again :D Read about atoms is useless if you don t see them , right ? That is your theory ?WHAT about all that thread started your son @Lariin here ??? He collect info from ...wait , from internet ..... :DWhat we should say to him ? That he is are troll because he present to us data from someone else ??
I don t want to derail this thread any more .If you like to continue discussing open another thread about HT ovens .....and you can start with data about commercial HT oven from Evenheat ... I have a lot to say in that thread .
This is my last post in this thread ,no more trolling .
 
Natlek said:
Really ? I m troll ? Just because I learn about pros/cons of different HT oven from books ?
Reading is one thing and doing is another. Really , again :D Read about atoms is useless if you don t see them , right ? That is your theory ?WHAT about all that thread started your son @Lariin here ??? He collect info from ...wait , from internet ..... :DWhat we should say to him ? That he is are troll because he present to us data from someone else ??
I don t want to derail this thread any more .If you like to continue discussing open another thread about HT ovens .....and you can start with data about commercial HT oven from Evenheat ... I have a lot to say in that thread .
This is my last post in this thread ,no more trolling .
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You are the only person that thinks you are smart.

Move along, you have contributed nothing to this thread.

Don’t drink and post.

Larrin has a PhD in metallurgy, you have nothing.

Hoss
 
I’ve been getting what I would call good results from my evenheat, and tempering in my home oven! Maybe not the best in the world, but I haven’t heard any complaints from anyone that has bought one of my knives! I wish I could afford industrial equipment! But I had to settle on a cheap evenheat oven!!
 
Just a quick update. 1084, 1095, 52100, and O1 with standard heat treat are done. I did all of them at 1475f,10 min soak. Tempered in 50f increments from either 300-450f, or 350-500f. I’m going to do more O1 and 52100 with a 1550f soak, cryo, and then temper for comparison. I might do 1095 and W2 like that as well.

I have three more conditions to try with v4e/4v, and I want to try one more with rex121. I’ll send these off then start on the L6, 80crv2, M4, and z-tuff.

I’ve been on a heat treating frenzy lately. I’m spending almost all of my spare time on heat treating as of late. I’m really enjoying this.

JT contacted me and has the samples I sent him. I’m looking forward to the results.
 
Willie71 said:
Just a quick update. 1084, 1095, 52100, and O1 with standard heat treat are done. I did all of them at 1475f,10 min soak. Tempered in 50f increments from either 300-450f, or 350-500f. I’m going to do more O1 and 52100 with a 1550f soak, cryo, and then temper for comparison. I might do 1095 and W2 like that as well.

I have three more conditions to try with v4e/4v, and I want to try one more with rex121. I’ll send these off then start on the L6, 80crv2, M4, and z-tuff.

I’ve been on a heat treating frenzy lately. I’m spending almost all of my spare time on heat treating as of late. I’m really enjoying this.

JT contacted me and has the samples I sent him. I’m looking forward to the results.
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Dude, you are a machine.

Hoss
 
Just a note about my observation of industrial practice is that maybe the machines can be bigger and cost more but the quality is going to rest at the employee level or by what can be automated. I know that I have read plenty of threads about people mapping the heat in their ovens. That's beyond the care of your average guy loading product and using the standard program. I'm not saying that better equipment cant help but that a very caring craftsman is likely producing better results than industrial average.
 
Larrin said:
Pretty soon Warren will be able to run KnifeSteelNerds he’s heat treated so many different steels.
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Well, I’ve heat treated a lot, but I only know four steels really well at this point. It’s one thing to follow a recipe, and another to dial in a regime for aspecific application.

I think you give me too much credit.
 
skillgannon said:
Just a note about my observation of industrial practice is that maybe the machines can be bigger and cost more but the quality is going to rest at the employee level or by what can be automated. I know that I have read plenty of threads about people mapping the heat in their ovens. That's beyond the care of your average guy loading product and using the standard program. I'm not saying that better equipment cant help but that a very caring craftsman is likely producing better results than industrial average.
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I’ve dialed my process with my equipment. Where I know I can improve is having a second, or third oven even for faster ramping. A triple set of salt pots for tempering, carbon steels, and high alloy steels would be interesting to compare results too. How much are we really leaving on the table? I’m guessing not too much.
 
As I was cutting out the 3v, 4v, V4e, and z-wear, I ran the kiln at 1550f, and heat-treated the L6, O1 with cryo, and 52100 with cryo. Tempering as we speak. I was going to use 1550f with the 80crv2, but I think I’ll run it at 1525f. I’ll do a couple more conditions with 8670 at 1525 as well.

It’ll probably take me two full days to run the different programs which are shared between the steels. I’ll be using 1925f, cryo, low temper, 1975f high temper (low temper is done already), and 2050 cryo, low temper.

Z-wear will only be at 1975f, cryo, and 300f temper, rather than 400, and 2050f, cryo, 400f temper. I’m trying to get samples to Rc64, to see how much toughness drops above Rc62. At 2050f, three tempers is recommended in the datasheets.

I’m finding I have to follow a process, and be methodical, as running each sample independently would take forever. I don’t compromise protocols, beyond pulling one steel out at temp, while another requires 10 more minutes to soak. Each steel gets the correct pre-heats, ramps, and soak times. Several steels share the same protocols, but I have to carefully label everything, and keep track of what order they get loaded in the kiln, so I pull the right ones at the right time.

Oh, and to address temp control questions, the samples are in small pouches, about 3”x3”, and placed dead center under the thermocouple. I’ve run a separate probe, and my kiln is accurate at that location. There used to be 25f +/- front to back, but it’s about 10-15f (5-7f +/-) at most now as I have steel bars running length wise on each side. Once equalized, temp front to back is pretty even now.

I didn’t feel the need to justify myself previously, as I have addressed this way back when I dialed in my W2 protocol. Didn’t seem like a question a few posts ago, but more like a statement this process was a joke. If anyone knows anything about me here, it’s that I take heat treat very seriously.
 
Warren, you don’t need to justify yourself and your methods any further. Those of us who have actually paid attention and done the due diligence know that you know what you are doing and your HT methods are sound. I add my name to those who have been commending you on your work and efforts, especially in contribution to the testing done as represented in this thread. I’ve seen your work. I know your dedication to exacting HT. I’m proud of you, and I know the community is proud of you, and lucky to have you on board. Keep up the good work!
 
Willie71 said:
As I was cutting out the 3v, 4v, V4e, and z-wear, I ran the kiln at 1550f, and heat-treated the L6, O1 with cryo, and 52100 with cryo. Tempering as we speak. I was going to use 1550f with the 80crv2, but I think I’ll run it at 1525f. I’ll do a couple more conditions with 8670 at 1525 as well.

It’ll probably take me two full days to run the different programs which are shared between the steels. I’ll be using 1925f, cryo, low temper, 1975f high temper (low temper is done already), and 2050 cryo, low temper.

Z-wear will only be at 1975f, cryo, and 300f temper, rather than 400, and 2050f, cryo, 400f temper. I’m trying to get samples to Rc64, to see how much toughness drops above Rc62. At 2050f, three tempers is recommended in the datasheets.

I’m finding I have to follow a process, and be methodical, as running each sample independently would take forever. I don’t compromise protocols, beyond pulling one steel out at temp, while another requires 10 more minutes to soak. Each steel gets the correct pre-heats, ramps, and soak times. Several steels share the same protocols, but I have to carefully label everything, and keep track of what order they get loaded in the kiln, so I pull the right ones at the right time.

Oh, and to address temp control questions, the samples are in small pouches, about 3”x3”, and placed dead center under the thermocouple. I’ve run a separate probe, and my kiln is accurate at that location. There used to be 25f +/- front to back, but it’s about 10-15f (5-7f +/-) at most now as I have steel bars running length wise on each side. Once equalized, temp front to back is pretty even now.

I didn’t feel the need to justify myself previously, as I have addressed this way back when I dialed in my W2 protocol. Didn’t seem like a question a few posts ago, but more like a statement this process was a joke. If anyone knows anything about me here, it’s that I take heat treat very seriously.
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You don’t need to justify anything, Warren. You’re the man.
Although it’s true that better equipment (state of the art vacuum furnace, several molten salt industrial pots to temper), IN THEORY, would be better for heat treating, in practice, nothing comes close to human attention to detail, so I much prefer something heat treated with an Evenheat kiln or with a home built kiln by someone who devotes lots of care and dedication to his work, like Warren and others, than something heat treated in a big facility, where they heat treat hundreds of knives a day. Heat treatment it’s the most important part of knifemaking process, so I much prefer that the maker himself makes it.
 
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