Call for Charpy toughness samples

scott.livesey said:
Very interesting. 8670 is an economy steel with very basic heat treat, while Z-Tuff requires a much more complicated heat treatment besides costing 3 times as much as 8670. Except for the advertising benefit of saying Z-Tuff, 8670 seems to be the best value.
the old sailor
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That is if your value is based on toughness alone. Z-Tuff is likely to be significantly more wear resistant.
 
rodriguez7 said:
The main benefit in my opinion, with ztuff over 8670, is rust resistance, and wear resistance, plate quench vs oil. But I don’t think much more is involved in the heat treat. Some foil, and higher austenizing temps. But ztuff is like 4 times as expensive. And in the end I think ztuff will be the better steel, and tougher at the right hardness.
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I agree the “simplicity” of heat treating low alloy steels is overstated. Your chances of getting consistent toughness and hardness on 8670 with a forge heat treatment is likely to be low. And once you have a furnace it hardly matters which steel you are working with.
 
scott.livesey said:
Very interesting. 8670 is an economy steel with very basic heat treat, while Z-Tuff requires a much more complicated heat treatment besides costing 3 times as much as 8670. Except for the advertising benefit of saying Z-Tuff, 8670 seems to be the best value.
the old sailor
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Z-tuff should equal or beat A2 for wear resistance. 8670 cant match that, at equal harness.
 
Larrin said:
I agree the “simplicity” of heat treating low alloy steels is overstated. Your chances of getting consistent toughness and hardness on 8670 with a forge heat treatment is likely to be low. And once you have a furnace it hardly matters which steel you are working with.
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Don’t forget I tried multiple austenitizing temps to find the optimum at 1525f. Going up or down more than 75f will see much different performance.
 
Larrin said:
That is if your value is based on toughness alone. Z-Tuff is likely to be significantly more wear resistant.
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For the project I have in mind, a dedicated cooked meat chopper, 8670 would be a better value. I should not have used the word 'Best'. There is a 'not to exceed' price point that I could meet with 8670 but not meet with Z-Tuff. Thanks to all for the information.
the old sailor
 
scott.livesey said:
For the project I have in mind, a dedicated cooked meat chopper, 8670 would be a better value. I should not have used the word 'Best'. There is a 'not to exceed' price point that I could meet with 8670 but not meet with Z-Tuff. Thanks to all for the information.
the old sailor
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I’m with you on this. Although I like the new hi tech steel as the next guy, 8670 (or S7) makes more sense to me for a dedicated chopper. Here http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/forum/read.php?17,46937,page=1 they talk about it extensively.
 
Willie71 said:
I’m pretty sure both steels will be much tougher yet at Rc58-60. It’ll be interesting to see how 15n20, 80crv2 and L6 compare. It looks like 3v is very tough, but not in the same league as z-tuff and 8670.
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i look forward to the 15N20 results especially in light of the fact that NJSB now has 3/16 and 1/4 stock, so no more complaining about having to forge weld stuff together with hawks or bit choppers. it will be interesting to see what effect the 2% nickel has compared to the .8% nickel with the other ingredients tha you find in 8670. Of course, both flavors of L6 will be lurking around the corner. The advantage that 15N20 has over both L6 and 8670 is the now much wider variety of stock available.
 
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Zapp says that Z-Tuff has wear resistance like A2.
scott.livesey said:
Very interesting. 8670 is an economy steel with very basic heat treat, while Z-Tuff requires a much more complicated heat treatment besides costing 3 times as much as 8670. Except for the advertising benefit of saying Z-Tuff, 8670 seems to be the best value(for the specific project I have in mind.)
the old sailor
Click to expand...

rodriguez7 said:
The main benefit in my opinion, with ztuff over 8670, is rust resistance, and wear resistance, plate quench vs oil. But I don’t think much more is involved in the heat treat. Some foil, and higher austenizing temps. But ztuff is like 4 times as expensive. And in the end I think ztuff will be the better steel, and tougher at the right hardness.
Click to expand...
 
Willie71 said:
Is it better than z-wear? I haven't used z-tuff much yet to compare.
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I’m not really sure, the only zwear blade I have is stone washed. But with the low temper I haven’t had any rusting yet, and I’ve used it to butcher a few pigs, and left the blood on it to see. No staining!
 
scott.livesey said:
For the project I have in mind, a dedicated cooked meat chopper, 8670 would be a better value. I should not have used the word 'Best'. There is a 'not to exceed' price point that I could meet with 8670 but not meet with Z-Tuff. Thanks to all for the information.
the old sailor
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I’ve got a couple chef’s knives out there in 8670. Chuck recommended I try it, and I’m glad I did. I made my camping knife set from 8670. I just need to put some handles on them.
 
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