Camp knife or hatchet?

Originally posted by Cliff Stamp:
Hoodoo, what length is your heavy-duty Barteaux machete and how thick is it?

-Cliff
Click to expand...

I believe I posted that info once before here: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000277.html

I get a chance, I'll recheck it. I have one of the newer models also, but it doesn't have quite the heft although I think they are still pretty good choppers.

I've been wanting to do some machete comparisons and I've accumulated a few cheapies but I won't have the time until this summer.



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Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman
 
Here's a better link to those Sandvik hatchets. These are pretty nice hatchets. Many hatches are 13" but I like the extra couple of inches on this one.
http://www.amleo.com/help-desk/item.php?12ax

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Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman

[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 03-17-2000).]
 
Cliff, here are the specs on my old Barteaux machete.

Blade thickness = 0.110" across the entire spine.
Width at the hilt = 1 11/16"
Widest part of the blade is just a little back from the curve of the tanto point and it's 2 5/16".

Blade length is approx 18" and overall wt of the machete is approximately 1 3/4 lbs. It's a pretty good chunk to swing around.

I have a similarly sized Tramotina whose blade thickness is about 0.095 at the hilt and tapers up to the tip to around 0.085. Overall weight is slightly less than 1 lb.

I have a newer Barteaux and the blade thickness on it is 0.100"

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Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman

[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 03-17-2000).]
 
Quote
Those of you who vote for Hatchet, have probably never had a good khukurie.
The Nepalese khukuries win hands down in all aspects and can cut like a knife.
/Quote

Then you have not used a good hatchet you were well trained in. Any tool designed for a singular purpose will do better than a tool designed for multiple uses. Period. And most tools requiring more training or learning will perfomr their task better than tools requiring less training.


Stryver


 
Quote:
"Then you have not used a good hatchet you were well trained in. Any tool designed for a singular purpose will do better than a tool designed for multiple uses. Period. And most tools requiring more training or learning will perfomr their task better than tools requiring less training."

I couldn't disagree more. Hatchet's are good for their purpose. However, they are a marriage of steel and wood or plastic(as the case may be). This was originally done due to lack of materials availability and lets face it, wood is easy to find. Khukuries are used for everything, including chopping, digging, cutting, etc. Houses in nepal have been built with khukuris. I have used both and have used hatchets a lot longer. I would out chop a similar size hatchet with a khukuri any day of the week.

I have yet to hear anyone who has used both claim the hatchet to chop better, it is usually the reverse. If you are out there and own an HI khukuri and a hatchet, test both and lets see some more results.


 
I see things as I can carry. So carry size for me is no more than 17 inches, usually. I would be willing to compare one of my khukuries with a good Hatchet. Someone point me in the direction of were to get a decent hatchet, I'll buy it and compare it to an AK or a WWII.
 
May I suggest that you investigate the "Leave No Trace" program before venturing into the wilds? See www.lnt.org. Since you're in Knoxville you might also want to contact the Tennessee Hiking Club in Kingsport. They maintain a stretch of the Appalachian Trail in Tennessee. You may find a hatchet or large knife superfluous on the trail. Also less weight to carry. Happy Trails!
 
Fraser... Leave no Trace is an admirable ethic to cultivate for enjoying the wilderness. There has been far too much negative human impact on the environment. However, I will always carry with me a means to hack, chop and cut should the need arise. I myself carry a khukuri and find that it does a wonderful job - better, in my opinion, than a handaxe. Just because one carries this tool doesn't mean that they are going to look for a reason to hack about irresponsibly and make a mess. LNT absolutely bears mentioning, but don't think about venturing into the wild unprepared and end up disappearing without a trace! *L* A bit melodramatic, but it flowed... and who am I to stifle creativity?

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They've got us completely surrounded... The poor bastards!
 
Your point is well taken, Fraser. the backcountry is in more danger from us than we are from it.

Last summer I took my children to one of my favorite swimming holes up in the Cascades. A mountain stream flows over a small cliff and crashes into a pool below. You can climb up the cliff and jump off into the pool. Many times in my youth I visited the site, and admired a majestic fir that clung to the face of the cliff. It's gnarled roots went over the rocks and into cracks. The tree had a noble spirit.

My children saw the dead remains of my old friend. Someone used a chopping tool to chop several of the old tree's roots. There is wood aplenty in the area. I have no idea why the vandals cut the roots of the tree. Perhaps to try out their new tools, for which they had no other use?

(removed in edit in order not to offend the sensitive - a contemplation of other possible uses for knives and hatchets.)

[This message has been edited by Howard Wallace (edited 03-18-2000).]
 
Lets leave violence and wanton distruction out of this discussion. With all due respects to Fraser's comments, there is still plenty of deadfall around, and my tools are used to clear some of this stuff off the trail and into my campfire (if I can't find deadfall the chopping tools stay in my pack).

Why anyone would want to cut down green wood is beyond me.
 
If we are to dissect the hatchet vs. the Khukuri in this ethereal location, the results will be messy. I think both can be very useful, and have to admit my bias comes, at least partly, from never using a khukuri. From a physics standpoint, I can get a greater rotational mass vs. over all mass in a hatchet-designed tool, but I have much more cutting edge on a khukuri. A hatchet can be choked up on easier, but a khukuri has blade near the hand so that one never need choke up. Both can do other things that the other can not, and both have durability or repairability pros the other does not.

Someday I will have the money and the pack space to carry both with me, and I'll try them out side by side. Until then, I will pack that which I have experience in, and trust that it will serve me the same as it always has, and pray that yours will serve you equally well.


Stryver
 
Originally posted by Stryver:

Someday I will have the money and the pack space to carry both with me, and I'll try them out side by side. Until then, I will pack that which I have experience in, and trust that it will serve me the same as it always has, and pray that yours will serve you equally well.
Click to expand...

Here's a cheap kukri that got a pretty decent review in one of the knife mags recently.

I deleted the previous link so try the following link and then search for kukri.
http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/index.tam

Someone posted previously that they wanted to buy a good hatchet to test against a kukri. I posted a link to a sandvik hatchet earlier in this thread. It's actually a very good hatchet.

You can also check out Foxridge Outfitters:
http://www.foxridgeoutfitters.com/cutlery/snaxes.html

The axe in the middle should be a good one to compare to a kukri.

------------------
Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman

[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 03-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 03-19-2000).]
 
The khukuri seems to be an excellent design where it is desired to be able to use a single edged tool for as wide of a variety tasks as possible, but it gives up some performance to more specialized tools such as axes. When comparing performance to a hatchet it seems fair to compare weight and length, which can be hard to do as the designs are different; typical 'hunter's hatchets' are around 1 1/4lbs with about a 12in handle, so for length one would compare it to khukuri typically having an 8in blade and 4in handle, but such a khukuri would often be a bit lighter in weight. The service models with 12in blades and 4in handles might often weigh around 1 1/4 lbs, but the 16in length offers an advantage. I think that typical hatchets have handles that are too short, and it might also be why some prefer a hawk over a typical hatchet.

To get an idea for how weight and length contribute to performance consider a tool like a hammer, say a common 16oz. They seem to typically have handles that are 11in to 12in long, and obviously don't work as well when trying to hold the head and driving nails with the handle :^) The hammer also wouldn't be as effective if it were merely a length of steel rod or pipe, which is kind of like the khukuri as it doesn't concentrate the weight like a hammer or hatchet or ax. Something interesting to try would be a longer handle on a khukuri, as it would make it more like a hatchet or ax.
 
Johno, I don't see any reason to change the khukuri when it can already outchop the hatchet. The hatchet I had was over 15 inches OAL and so was my khukuri. The khukuri won. I looked into the site with hatchets for sale and they are exactly like the one I had. Thus, no difference in tests results. khukuri wins
 
Originally posted by Cobalt:
Johno, I don't see any reason to change the khukuri when it can already outchop the hatchet. The hatchet I had was over 15 inches OAL and so was my khukuri. The khukuri won. I looked into the site with hatchets for sale and they are exactly like the one I had. Thus, no difference in tests results. khukuri wins
Click to expand...

Could you give us a little more detail on the kind of tests you did? Type of wood for instance? Which hatchet? How it was ground? Wt of head? Which khukuri? Wt. and size of khukuri? Etc., etc., etc.

Thanks,


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Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman
 
First of all this was not a test, it was necesity. I had 2 chords of wood that I had to reduce in size. Some of the wood was very hard some was very soft and wet. I started off with the hatchet, which I purchased at Home Depot for $30.00, about what the ones on the net cost. It was longer than the 15 in.Ang Khola Khukuri. The khukuri weighed a little more though. I started using the hatchet and was getting typical penetration that was use to with the hatchet. I pulled the khukuri and started chopping with it. It was amazing how much deeper the khukuri went with every chop. I attribute this to the blade profile, not the weight since the hatchet was more front end heavy since all the weight is on the end.

Again this was not a test, but a chopping experience in which the khukuri won. It appears that I am the only one who has compared the two in here. I'm sure Cliff has tested hatchets in the past and can compare them to the khuk's. When I go back to the west coast I will find out what hatchet it was and post it. It was definitely not a junker, although I did break the wood handle on the chopping. but that was my fault.
 
I wrote up a comparison of Estwing hatchet vs. CS LTC & HI "villager" khukuri last year. Folks may find the details of interest but I'll save you some suspense -- my vote goes for a quality khukuri as a superior all-around camp tool.

Since that time, I have purchased several other quality khuks for myself & gave the "villager" model to a good friend. I traded both the Estwing & the LTC w/no regrets.

My current favorite is an 18" WWII model from HI that has proved itself to be the best kindling machine I have ever handled -- by far. I'm looking forward to comparing its performance to that of a HI 15" Chiruwa style (i.e., full tang) Ang Khola model that I received too late last year to really put through its paces.

Now, before anyone speculates that I am inexperienced with hatchets, I have used them for > 20 yrs for a variety of outdoor chores. I also go through several cords of wood every year at our camp. While a khukuri will not replace my full size axes or Stihl chainsaw, IMO, it is a clear winner vs. a hatchet for an all-around camp tool.

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Cheers,

--+Brian+--

He who finishes with the most toys wins.
 
Brian,

That's an intersting comparison. As I remember, the Estwing has a fairly nice grind that would probably be a good hatchet for kindling. But also, the head is kind of light and the handle is a bit short, isn't it? Depending on which one, it could be 11-13". Have you tried comparisons with longer handled axes (say a 15" handle and 1 3/4# head)? Also, can you give more specifics as to what makes the khuk a better tool for kindling. It seems to me the bigger cutting area makes it safer and easier to hit your mark and split kindling. Perhaps because of it, you are more likely to strike with greater force because you feel you have more control over it. I'm only speculating because I've never used a khukri.

One of the reason's I like the "hudson bay" style hatchet/axe is that the bit is usually wider than the typical boy's hatchet.



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Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman
 
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