CAN’T GET A DANG MIRROR EDGE!

Joined
Oct 24, 2020
Messages
180
Hello fellow blade enthusiast,
Ive been tinkering with the work sharp precision adjust sharpener since it came out and I’ve been able to get a fairly good and consistent mirror edge, however I can’t get the darn deep scratches out, could somebody recommend tips on how to get the very noticeable scratches to turn into less noticeable micro scratches. If you need pictures just let me know.
This is my process for sharpening:
320 diamond stone
600 diamond stone
I believe a 1000 Ceramic
1000 sandpaper
1500 sandpaper
2000 sandpaper

A series of Lapping film

strop with green compound
 
You can insert the images in your post like this:
image.jpg

image.jpg


While i cannot prove it, i dare to claim that the erratic deeper scratches stem from the early stages (320 diamond stone), yet not from the stone itself but from the steel shavings off of that stone. The steel shavings have no place to go, or some of them get stuck in the stone.

To get the deeper scratches out, one would need to grind with a fine stone until you've reached the depth of the deeper scratches, hoping that you didn't create new deep scratches in the process.

In your place i'd just use the knife and from now on sharpen the edge with higher grit stones only (i like ceramics). They produce micro shavings only, and over time your original deeper scratches will be gone. It'll take some time until you get there. Basically i am saying, do NOT go back to the diamond stones.

Or you could use ultrafast-cutting lapping films like the 𝕻𝕿𝕾 𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖔𝖉 hehe, if you're in a hurry.
 
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As a general suggestion; spending more time on the medium grit stones will probably help. Stick on that 600 grit diamond for longer since the deepest of the scratches are almost surely from the low grit diamond. Other than that, it is also going to be dependent on what type of steel you are working with. Ceramics can be great on most steels but some of the higher vanadium "super steels" featured on many pocket knives today work best with diamond or CBN abrasives. If you are chasing that mirror polish on something like S30v or higher, you may have to think about forgoing the ceramic and sandpaper, and instead either get some aftermarket diamond plates at a higher grit(I think gritomatic is making a KME stone compatible holder for the worksharp system) as well as dropping the green stropping compound in favor of some diamond paste or diamond spray.
 
The jump from 600 diamond --> 1000 ceramic is MUCH too wide. There's a big difference in aggressiveness between those two and the ceramic won't be able to polish out the scratches left by the 600 diamond. And it'll be worse if the 600 hasn't refined all of the scratches from the 320 diamond. Diamond cuts much deeper, relative to it's published grit rating, than does a ceramic hone.

After the 600 diamond, go to a 1200 diamond. If no other diamond is available, skip the ceramic and go to something like 400-600 sandpaper, then 800, then 1000 and so on. If the steel has high vanadium content (like S30V, etc), anything past ~ 600 - 800 or so on the sandpaper will struggle to polish as well as you'd want.

An easy sequence for polishing with diamond ONLY is to go 600 --> 1200 on the hones, then follow with stropping on firm wood with 3-micron and finer diamond compound. On hard wood, 3-micron diamond compound can bring up a polish very quickly, following at least the 1200 (EF; 9 micron) diamond hone and preferably also an EEF (8000 mesh or 3 micron) diamond hone.
 
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It looks like those scratches have sharp edges and they are not that deep. It indicates that the scratches have developed at a late stage of polishing. Are you sure, that your strop is clean? If there are particles which are bigger in size than your stropping compound particles, scratches will follow. Is your stropping compound clean? Those unwanted particles can come from the earlier stages of polishing if the blade is not cleaned properly between the polishing stages. Even the surrounding air contains tons of particles which can make a stop dirty. Did you check how the edge was before stropping? Were those scratches there before stropping? You have to check and make sure, that all the scratches from the previous stage are removed.

In my experience coarse diamond stones often cause irregular deep scratches. It takes a lot of time to remove those deep scratches at the next stage of polishing. I´ve had better results with coarse ceramic stones. Your blade seems to be in really good shape and there is no need for coarse stones.

For a tiny bevel like that, I wouldn't use that many polishing stages. It is easy to remove the scratch pattern from the earlier stage. After 1000 grit stone you can jump to 3000-5000 grit stone and after that you can do the the final polishing with your polishing compound. Tiny steps save time if you have to polish a lot of steel like a long singe bevel Japanese sushi knife or the whole katana. For a big surface tiny steps like 1000,1500, 2000, 3000 etc. make sense, but for your knife it is just a waste of time and resources.

If I would polish the bevel I see in your picture, I would begin with a 3000-5000 grit ceramic stone and use it as long as I see any hints of those deeper scratches. After finishing with the fine stone, I would polish the edge with some polishing compound. If the scratches are deeper than what I see in the pictures, then I would use two different stones like 1000-2000 and 3000-6000 grit. It is essential to make sure, that everything is clean. The air, stones, strop, compound and blade itself have to be clean at every stage. Clean the blade before every stage. For example any particles from 1000 grit stone will cause problems at the next stage.

I have stopped using compound on leather for the final polishing. No matter how much I try to keep my leather strops clean, there always seem to be some unwanted particles which generate scratches. I've had much better results with paper. I just take a clean piece of paper, put a tiny amount of diamond paste on the paper and start stropping. I've used newsprint, printing paper and tissue paper. Tissue paper is the best for polishing because the unwanted bigger particles sink deep into the tissue. However, soft strop will produce a slightly convex edge. If you want a totally flat grind, hard paper is what you want to use.

Marttiini mirror
 
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You’re jumping too far in grit. You need something in between 320 and 600. And 600 and 1000. Make sure your sharpening surfaces are clean. Use soap and water. Anything left behind could cause scratches.
 
You can insert the images in your post like this:
image.jpg

image.jpg


While i cannot prove it, i dare to claim that the erratic deeper scratches stem from the early stages (320 diamond stone), yet not from the stone itself but from the steel shavings off of that stone. The steel shavings have no place to go, or some of them get stuck in the stone.

To get the deeper scratches out, one would need to go back a couple of steps and grind with a permaclean stone until you've reached the depth of the deeper scratches, hoping that you didn't create new deep scratches in the process. Very challenging.

In your place i'd just use the knife and from now on sharpen the edge with higher grit stones only (i like ceramics). They produce micro shavings only, and over time your original deeper scratches will be gone. It'll take some time until you get there. Basically i am saying, do NOT go back to the diamond stones.

Or you could use ultrafast-cutting lapping films like the 𝕻𝕿𝕾 𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖔𝖉 hehe, if you're in a hurry. bev and draws.
I didn’t know how to do that thanks for the tip!
 
As a general suggestion; spending more time on the medium grit stones will probably help. Stick on that 600 grit diamond for longer since the deepest of the scratches are almost surely from the low grit diamond. Other than that, it is also going to be dependent on what type of steel you are working with. Ceramics can be great on most steels but some of the higher vanadium "super steels" featured on many pocket knives today work best with diamond or CBN abrasives. If you are chasing that mirror polish on something like S30v or higher, you may have to think about forgoing the ceramic and sandpaper, and instead either get some aftermarket diamond plates at a higher grit(I think gritomatic is making a KME stone compatible holder for the worksharp system) as well as dropping the green stropping compound in favor of some diamond paste or diamond spray.
I did notice on the knifes I spent more time on they had less of a scratch. thanks for the tip!
 
M
It looks like those scratches have sharp edges and they are not that deep. It indicates that the scratches have developed at a late stage of polishing. Are you sure, that your strop is clean? If there are particles which are bigger in size than your stropping compound particles, scratches will follow. Is your stropping compound clean? Those unwanted particles can come from the earlier stages of polishing if the blade is not cleaned properly between the polishing stages. Even the surrounding air contains tons of particles which can make a stop dirty. Did you check how the edge was before stropping? Were those scratches there before stropping? You have to check and make sure, that all the scratches from the previous stage are removed.

In my experience coarse diamond stones often cause irregular deep scratches. It takes a lot of time to remove those deep scratches at the next stage of polishing. I´ve had better results with coarse ceramic stones. Your blade seems to be in really good shape and there is no need for coarse stones.

For a tiny bevel like that, I wouldn't use that many polishing stages. It is easy to remove the scratch pattern from the earlier stage. After 1000 grit stone you can jump to 3000-5000 grit stone and after that you can do the the final polishing with your polishing compound. Tiny steps save time if you have to polish a lot of steel like a long singe bevel Japanese sushi knife or the whole katana. For a big surface tiny steps like 1000,1500, 2000, 3000 etc. make sense, but for your knife it is just a waste of time and resources.

If I would polish the bevel I see in your picture, I would begin with a 3000-5000 grit ceramic stone and use it as long as I see any hints of those deeper scratches. After finishing with the fine stone, I would polish the edge with some polishing compound. If the scratches are deeper than what I see in the pictures, then I would use two different stones like 1000-2000 and 3000-6000 grit. It is essential to make sure, that everything is clean. The air, stones, strop, compound and blade itself have to be clean at every stage. Clean the blade before every stage. For example any particles from 1000 grit stone will cause problems at the next stage.

I have stopped using compound on leather for the final polishing. No matter how much I try to keep my leather strops clean, there always seem to be some unwanted particles which generate scratches. I've had much better results with paper. I just take a clean piece of paper, put a tiny amount of diamond paste on the paper and start stropping. I've used newsprint, printing paper and tissue paper. Tissue paper is the best for polishing because the unwanted bigger particles sink deep into the tissue. However, soft strop will produce a slightly convex edge. If you want a totally flat grind, hard paper is what you want to use.

Marttiini mirror
My strop is clean I’m sure of it
 
I did notice on the knifes I spent more time on they had less of a scratch. thanks for the tip!
Another small tip that I remembered is to change the direction you are swiping from stone to stone if that makes sense. It will help you identify exactly which grit stone you are getting the scratches from, and it will help to see when you have cleared them with your next progression. For example, for the 320 grit diamond you can swipe at a 45 degree angle towards the tip and then when you go to the 600 grit you can go 45 degrees away from the tip.

Kind of creating an X if you will. Once all the scratches you see are heading in the new direction you can progress to the next stone and not before. Some light magnification will also help with this if you have a jewler's loupe or even a cheap dollar store magnifying glass.
 
i like the X trick (method). should work to identify deeper scratches. i did it back then, the X trick.

i believe the X trick removes more material than necessary. on small folders, that is a concern.
 
M
It looks like those scratches have sharp edges and they are not that deep. It indicates that the scratches have developed at a late stage of polishing. Are you sure, that your strop is clean? If there are particles which are bigger in size than your stropping compound particles, scratches will follow. Is your stropping compound clean? Those unwanted particles can come from the earlier stages of polishing if the blade is not cleaned properly between the polishing stages. Even the surrounding air contains tons of particles which can make a stop dirty. Did you check how the edge was before stropping? Were those scratches there before stropping? You have to check and make sure, that all the scratches from the previous stage are removed.

In my experience coarse diamond stones often cause irregular deep scratches. It takes a lot of time to remove those deep scratches at the next stage of polishing. I´ve had better results with coarse ceramic stones. Your blade seems to be in really good shape and there is no need for coarse stones.

For a tiny bevel like that, I wouldn't use that many polishing stages. It is easy to remove the scratch pattern from the earlier stage. After 1000 grit stone you can jump to 3000-5000 grit stone and after that you can do the the final polishing with your polishing compound. Tiny steps save time if you have to polish a lot of steel like a long singe bevel Japanese sushi knife or the whole katana. For a big surface tiny steps like 1000,1500, 2000, 3000 etc. make sense, but for your knife it is just a waste of time and resources.

If I would polish the bevel I see in your picture, I would begin with a 3000-5000 grit ceramic stone and use it as long as I see any hints of those deeper scratches. After finishing with the fine stone, I would polish the edge with some polishing compound. If the scratches are deeper than what I see in the pictures, then I would use two different stones like 1000-2000 and 3000-6000 grit. It is essential to make sure, that everything is clean. The air, stones, strop, compound and blade itself have to be clean at every stage. Clean the blade before every stage. For example any particles from 1000 grit stone will cause problems at the next stage.

I have stopped using compound on leather for the final polishing. No matter how much I try to keep my leather strops clean, there always seem to be some unwanted particles which generate scratches. I've had much better results with paper. I just take a clean piece of paper, put a tiny amount of diamond paste on the paper and start stropping. I've used newsprint, printing paper and tissue paper. Tissue paper is the best for polishing because the unwanted bigger particles sink deep into the tissue. However, soft strop will produce a slightly convex edge. If you want a totally flat grind, hard paper is what you want to use.

Marttiini mirror
My strop is clean I’m sure of it
Another small tip that I remembered is to change the direction you are swiping from stone to stone if that makes sense. It will help you identify exactly which grit stone you are getting the scratches from, and it will help to see when you have cleared them with your next progression. For example, for the 320 grit diamond you can swipe at a 45 degree angle towards the tip and then when you go to the 600 grit you can go 45 degrees away from the tip.

Kind of creating an X if you will. Once all the scratches you see are heading in the new direction you can progress to the next stone and not before. Some light magnification will also help with this if you have a jewler's loupe or even a cheap dollar store magnifying glass.
that is something I will try
 
It looks like those scratches have sharp edges and they are not that deep. It indicates that the scratches have developed at a late stage of polishing. Are you sure, that your strop is clean? If there are particles which are bigger in size than your stropping compound particles, scratches will follow. Is your stropping compound clean? Those unwanted particles can come from the earlier stages of polishing if the blade is not cleaned properly between the polishing stages. Even the surrounding air contains tons of particles which can make a stop dirty. Did you check how the edge was before stropping? Were those scratches there before stropping? You have to check and make sure, that all the scratches from the previous stage are removed.

In my experience coarse diamond stones often cause irregular deep scratches. It takes a lot of time to remove those deep scratches at the next stage of polishing. I´ve had better results with coarse ceramic stones. Your blade seems to be in really good shape and there is no need for coarse stones.

For a tiny bevel like that, I wouldn't use that many polishing stages. It is easy to remove the scratch pattern from the earlier stage. After 1000 grit stone you can jump to 3000-5000 grit stone and after that you can do the the final polishing with your polishing compound. Tiny steps save time if you have to polish a lot of steel like a long singe bevel Japanese sushi knife or the whole katana. For a big surface tiny steps like 1000,1500, 2000, 3000 etc. make sense, but for your knife it is just a waste of time and resources.

If I would polish the bevel I see in your picture, I would begin with a 3000-5000 grit ceramic stone and use it as long as I see any hints of those deeper scratches. After finishing with the fine stone, I would polish the edge with some polishing compound. If the scratches are deeper than what I see in the pictures, then I would use two different stones like 1000-2000 and 3000-6000 grit. It is essential to make sure, that everything is clean. The air, stones, strop, compound and blade itself have to be clean at every stage. Clean the blade before every stage. For example any particles from 1000 grit stone will cause problems at the next stage.

I have stopped using compound on leather for the final polishing. No matter how much I try to keep my leather strops clean, there always seem to be some unwanted particles which generate scratches. I've had much better results with paper. I just take a clean piece of paper, put a tiny amount of diamond paste on the paper and start stropping. I've used newsprint, printing paper and tissue paper. Tissue paper is the best for polishing because the unwanted bigger particles sink deep into the tissue. However, soft strop will produce a slightly convex edge. If you want a totally flat grind, hard paper is what you want to use.

Marttiini mirror
I used my printer paper and… woooow that made a hell of a difference. It didn’t take away the scratches however it made it wayyyy more shiny and less noticeable
 
The jump from 600 diamond --> 1000 ceramic is MUCH too wide. There's a big difference in aggressiveness between those two and the ceramic won't be able to polish out the scratches left by the 600 diamond. And it'll be worse if the 600 hasn't refined all of the scratches from the 320 diamond. Diamond cuts much deeper, relative to it's published grit rating, than does a ceramic hone.

After the 600 diamond, go to a 1200 diamond. If no other diamond is available, skip the ceramic and go to something like 400-600 sandpaper, then 800, then 1000 and so on. If the steel has high vanadium content (like S30V, etc), anything past ~ 600 - 800 or so on the sandpaper will struggle to polish as well as you'd want.

An easy sequence for polishing with diamond ONLY is to go 600 --> 1200 on the hones, then follow with stropping on firm wood with 3-micron and finer diamond compound. On hard wood, 3-micron diamond compound can bring up a polish very quickly, following at least the 1200 (EF; 9 micron) diamond hone and preferably also an EEF (8000 mesh or 3 micron) diamond hone.
I find diamond plates problematic. Diamond plates often generate few really deep scratches, which take a lot of work to remove at the next stage. I don't have this problem with coarse fast cutting ceramic stones. If I need to remove a lot of steel, my choice of grits are something like 200-300, 500-600, 1000-1500 and 3000-4000.

The grit of polishing compound doesn't seem to matter. 0.25 micron diamond paste gives pretty much the same results as 5 micron diamond paste. I get a mirror shine with both grits. I think, that the soft surface of a strop equalizes things. The bigger the particles are, the deeper they sink into the strop.
 
I used my printer paper and… woooow that made a hell of a difference. It didn’t take away the scratches however it made it wayyyy more shiny and less noticeable
I´m glad to hear that. No matter what kind of strop you use for polishing, the strop will get black from all the removed metal. If you use a paper strop, you can start with a clean strop every time. Leather strops get really messy after few polished knives/tools.

If you want to remove those deep scratches, you probably need to start with a 1000-2000 grit stone. I wouldn´t use coarse diamond plates if you don´t need to remove a lot of metal.

I recommend exploring that X trick. Learn how to see when all the scratches from the previous stage are removed. This is an essential part of polishing.
 
I find diamond plates problematic. Diamond plates often generate few really deep scratches, which take a lot of work to remove at the next stage. I don't have this problem with coarse fast cutting ceramic stones. If I need to remove a lot of steel, my choice of grits are something like 200-300, 500-600, 1000-1500 and 3000-4000.

The grit of polishing compound doesn't seem to matter. 0.25 micron diamond paste gives pretty much the same results as 5 micron diamond paste. I get a mirror shine with both grits. I think, that the soft surface of a strop equalizes things. The bigger the particles are, the deeper they sink into the strop.
I've noticed a big difference in finish between DMT's 6-micron paste and their 3-micron paste. I used both on firm/hard wood, like basswood. The 6-micron always leaves a hazy finish, regardless of how long I strop with it. In transitioning to the 3-micron, it brings up a mirror shine FAST. And if I skip the 3-micron and go to their 1-micron paste, it's much slower to bring up a mirror when following something like the EF (1200) DMT hone. So, I find the 3-micron paste from DMT to be the fastest working and also the most versatile option, if I'm looking to polish an edge coming straight off the EF or finer diamond hones.

There's likely a certain threshold, maybe at or below that 5-micron mark, where the mirror comes more easily. But at least with DMT's pastes at 6, 3, and 1 micron, I notice a big difference in how they work.
 
I´m glad to hear that. No matter what kind of strop you use for polishing, the strop will get black from all the removed metal. If you use a paper strop, you can start with a clean strop every time. Leather strops get really messy after few polished knives/tools.

If you want to remove those deep scratches, you probably need to start with a 1000-2000 grit stone. I wouldn´t use coarse diamond plates if you don´t need to remove a lot of metal.

I recommend exploring that X trick. Learn how to see when all the scratches from the previous stage are removed. This is an essential part of polishing.
After a week of testing the x method I believe the scratches are coming from the 600 grit
 
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