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- Oct 24, 2020
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I don’t wipe down the stones at all. I’ve been wiping the blade
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CAN’T GET A DANG MIRROR EDGE!
- Thread starter Jordan1010
- Start date
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Do you wipe the stone down consistently, this may help. I always like to see other peoples sharpening results.
Ugh darn it I need to go back and re try this method lol
Ugh darn it I need to go back and re try this method lol
2 yrs ago i got a titanium bead in the mail, fresh off the lathe, unfinished (school grade C-), in disappointing matt titanium gray.
Here some old photo from when i got it, unboxing:
The dull appearance, the matt grey color was imho non-attractive for being a bead, i.e. a piece of man jewellery. It really looked like a workpiece from a production tablet of a lathe!
Back then, right after the unboxing, i spent some polishing efforts on it to reduce the obvious machining (lathing) marks, with mild success (school grade B-):
Today i revisited the polishing project and finished to deep mirror-polish:
the bead's edges were sharp and burry, so i chamfered all edges with a ruby file but the produced 135° edges were again sharp and burry. Moreover the file slipped off the chamfers and macro-scratched the finish. Very soft titanium alloy. My polishing stones worked okay but wetordry 5000 sandpaper, a fleece pad (not shown), microfibre cloth, a Q-tip, with solid compound were more suitable:
I am glad that i did not use my dremel: even without a dremel, i ran into both the micro-pitting and the burnishing phenomenon and had to reset with the sandpaper and try again. The RL result looks fantastic (school grade A or A-) but i could still see micro scratches with bare eyes (invisible on photos/videos/cams). Now the piece doesn't look gray or like titanium but like a shiny piece of chromium:
If the bead gets micro-scratched during knife pocket carry, i'll gladly revisit this mirror-polishing project, since i know how it's done (sandpaper 5000!) and how it is not done (polishing stones!).
J Jordan1010 If your blade is sharp, just use it until it's dull. Then, for your next touch-up (with burr creation), use only fine abrasives like 204M or 204F. The 204M will get down to your scratches fast, erasing them.
Here some old photo from when i got it, unboxing:
The dull appearance, the matt grey color was imho non-attractive for being a bead, i.e. a piece of man jewellery. It really looked like a workpiece from a production tablet of a lathe!
Back then, right after the unboxing, i spent some polishing efforts on it to reduce the obvious machining (lathing) marks, with mild success (school grade B-):
Today i revisited the polishing project and finished to deep mirror-polish:
the bead's edges were sharp and burry, so i chamfered all edges with a ruby file but the produced 135° edges were again sharp and burry. Moreover the file slipped off the chamfers and macro-scratched the finish. Very soft titanium alloy. My polishing stones worked okay but wetordry 5000 sandpaper, a fleece pad (not shown), microfibre cloth, a Q-tip, with solid compound were more suitable:
I am glad that i did not use my dremel: even without a dremel, i ran into both the micro-pitting and the burnishing phenomenon and had to reset with the sandpaper and try again. The RL result looks fantastic (school grade A or A-) but i could still see micro scratches with bare eyes (invisible on photos/videos/cams). Now the piece doesn't look gray or like titanium but like a shiny piece of chromium:
If the bead gets micro-scratched during knife pocket carry, i'll gladly revisit this mirror-polishing project, since i know how it's done (sandpaper 5000!) and how it is not done (polishing stones!).
J Jordan1010 If your blade is sharp, just use it until it's dull. Then, for your next touch-up (with burr creation), use only fine abrasives like 204M or 204F. The 204M will get down to your scratches fast, erasing them.
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- Joined
- Oct 24, 2020
- Messages
- 180
Thank you for the in depth suggestion2 yrs ago i got a titanium bead in the mail, fresh off the lathe, unfinished (school grade D), matt titanium gray.
Here some old photo from when i got it, unboxing:
Back then, right after the unboxing, i spent some polishing efforts on it, with mild success (school grade C+):
Today i revisited the polishing project and finished to mirror-polish:
the bead's edges were sharp and burry, so i chamfered all edges with a ruby file but the produced 135° edges were again sharp and burry. Moreover the file slipped off the chamfers and macro-scratched the finish. Very soft titanium alloy. My polishing stones worked okay but wetordry 5000 sandpaper, a fleece pad (not shown), microfibre cloth, a Q-tip, with solid compound were more suitable:
I am glad that i did not use my dremel: even without a dremel, i ran into both the micro-pitting and the burnishing phenomenon and had to reset with the sandpaper and try again. The RL result looks fantastic (school grade A or A-) but i could still see micro scratches with bare eyes (invisible on photos/videos/cams). Now the piece doesn't look gray or like titanium but like a shiny piece of chromium:
If the bead gets micro-scratched during knife pocket carry, i'll gladly revisit this mirror-polishing project, since i know how it's done (sandpaper 5000!) and how it is not done (polishing stones!).
J Jordan1010 If your blade is sharp, just use it until it's dull. Then, for your next touch-up (with burr creation), use only fine abrasives like 204M or 204F. The 204M will get down to your scratches fast, erasing them.
I'm on a mirror polishing project, using everything (abrasives) i have. gaining much experience and learning new technique with my dremel along the way, very enlightening. etc.
yesterday, as dreaded, i ran into the beginning of micropitting on a 1.2mm thin "bevel", when i switched from dremeling w\ white compound to q-tipping w\ blue compound. maybe i was q-tipping too fast\hard, maybe the q-tip is not soft enough.
in another instance i also ran into the beginning of burnishing (i.e. the spot starts looking "burned brownish" amidst the mirror yikes!), when i kept grinding\polishing a 2mm thin "bevel" with steel clogged ultrafine ceramics.
these two phenomena are the ultimate and only severe problems when trying to reach a higher degree of mirror polish, with micropitting being the more common/easier to encounter. mind you, different grades\types of micropitting exist. but one should stop as soon as any kind of micropitting is morphing. tool companies accept micropitting as necessary evil in the automated finishing process (with buffing wheels, robots, etc), but yesterday i found a manual way around it.
(...)
the most effective way of resetting either surface defect was by sanding with broken_in wetordry SiC paper like matador P1200 (or with luck even P2000, but will take longer). it erases such spots more or less fast while maintaining a basic mirror polish. the advice is then to continue with broken_in matador only: P2500, ST3000, ST5000, sanding dry in unidirectional movements (no swirling movements!). — the result will be a sharp crisp (not blurry!) mirror polish with hydrophobic effect and with minimal unidirectional haze. one needs to understand the difference between haze and blur (blur is the distant optical effect of a micropitted area). school grade A-, one can leave it like that!
As a very last step one could try to improve that result to grade A with 1 (not more!) polishing compound like merard orange or osborn blue (or the finest you own: green, red) on a soft microfibre cloth. But there's a risk of micropitting: while you manage to clear up the haze, you eventually introduce blur! Like stropping a knife, one should use soft slow gentle movements (unidirectional or swirling, you decide) and limit time. If you want to be safe and prefer crispiness to hazefreeness, doht use that polishing compound step at all. (btw i doht strop my kitchen knives anymore, i prefer crisp edges coming off of RRS)
(( and what about grade A+, i.e. turning a 3D "facetted" workpiece from unfinished state into 100% defectfree superdeep crisp hazefree blurryfree mirror polish? That's imho humanly impossible under normal circumstances. tiny 2D surfaces yes, but not a full 3D workpiece.
i'd grade this Japanese guy's efforts+result with a B+, sorry to say:
and i'm not sure if i could have done that extended bevel face better, within the same time period. there are simply too many self-inflicted micro and macro scratches remaining in his mirror polish that he could ever deserve an A level grade - it just shows you that, once you have\see a micro scratch in an otherwise defectfree mirror finish, one would have to return to grinding with a medium stone in order to etc etc, i.e. under normal circumstances even for the cleanliest worker 'grade A mirror-polishing' does not mean a straight line path but a frustrating recursive one. the original bevel had perpendicular grind lines but his mirror finish ends up with edge-following macro scratches. the first and biggest mistake (at reaching the highest grade of mirror polish) he made was grinding down the perpendicular grind lines with a #120 stone; that stone ripped off larger steel particles which caused the very deep longitudinal scratches from which he could not recover in the subsequent stages. he should have tried the #2000 stone first to see how that went. ))
Could rubbing with broken_in wetordry paper eventually lead to micropitting or burnishing too? yes yes. Either has happened to me. So, while sandpaper is the way to go, the most solid path to mirror polishing success, one can't just go mindlessly about it. Simply use fresh paper instead haha.
The small(?) disadvantage of sanding with paper is that the surface loses its perfect exact geometry (mean flatness, crisp edges) and everything gets rounded off, smoothly so. The question depends on the intended usage of the workpiece, some gems\watches\rings might look better with rounded edges, while others wouldn't. And in some precision machines/applications, one really needs dead-flat mirrorpolish let alone an actual mirror made out of metal!
And doht get me started on buffing wheels! Here is a commercial example of an in many ways ridiculously "mirror finished" EDC cap lifter, fast tracked with a buffing wheel, everything got rounded off, while the original crisp beautiful geometry was advertised as "titanium": comparison.jpg - you pay a +50% extra for the hand finished item, but get a (imho ugily) rounded tool, and you can still see grinding scratches, even on the photo! Of course these scratches are much deeper than one could ever notice the micropitting lol. The manufacturer cannot(!) argue that the rounding of the flats and chamfers was intentional. The intention was to turn the titanium into mirror-polish. And the way she did it (wrongly), the result is a semi-mirror polish plus unintended roundings everywhere. Just imagine how stunning the workpiece would look if the workpiece had kept its original crisp geometry and only the surfaces underwent the dramatic change from titanium to clean undistorted deep mirror finish!! No, the rounding was never intended. Some may like it/prefer it, but it was not intentional. It was a byproduct of how poorly she tried to finish the workpiece: just some simple grinding of the flats, plus some accelerated time against several stages of a buffing wheel omfg.
( this post was more about mirror polishing than about mirror polishing edges, sohri. )
yesterday, as dreaded, i ran into the beginning of micropitting on a 1.2mm thin "bevel", when i switched from dremeling w\ white compound to q-tipping w\ blue compound. maybe i was q-tipping too fast\hard, maybe the q-tip is not soft enough.
in another instance i also ran into the beginning of burnishing (i.e. the spot starts looking "burned brownish" amidst the mirror yikes!), when i kept grinding\polishing a 2mm thin "bevel" with steel clogged ultrafine ceramics.
these two phenomena are the ultimate and only severe problems when trying to reach a higher degree of mirror polish, with micropitting being the more common/easier to encounter. mind you, different grades\types of micropitting exist. but one should stop as soon as any kind of micropitting is morphing. tool companies accept micropitting as necessary evil in the automated finishing process (with buffing wheels, robots, etc), but yesterday i found a manual way around it.
(...)
the most effective way of resetting either surface defect was by sanding with broken_in wetordry SiC paper like matador P1200 (or with luck even P2000, but will take longer). it erases such spots more or less fast while maintaining a basic mirror polish. the advice is then to continue with broken_in matador only: P2500, ST3000, ST5000, sanding dry in unidirectional movements (no swirling movements!). — the result will be a sharp crisp (not blurry!) mirror polish with hydrophobic effect and with minimal unidirectional haze. one needs to understand the difference between haze and blur (blur is the distant optical effect of a micropitted area). school grade A-, one can leave it like that!
As a very last step one could try to improve that result to grade A with 1 (not more!) polishing compound like merard orange or osborn blue (or the finest you own: green, red) on a soft microfibre cloth. But there's a risk of micropitting: while you manage to clear up the haze, you eventually introduce blur! Like stropping a knife, one should use soft slow gentle movements (unidirectional or swirling, you decide) and limit time. If you want to be safe and prefer crispiness to hazefreeness, doht use that polishing compound step at all. (btw i doht strop my kitchen knives anymore, i prefer crisp edges coming off of RRS)
(( and what about grade A+, i.e. turning a 3D "facetted" workpiece from unfinished state into 100% defectfree superdeep crisp hazefree blurryfree mirror polish? That's imho humanly impossible under normal circumstances. tiny 2D surfaces yes, but not a full 3D workpiece.
i'd grade this Japanese guy's efforts+result with a B+, sorry to say:
Could rubbing with broken_in wetordry paper eventually lead to micropitting or burnishing too? yes yes. Either has happened to me. So, while sandpaper is the way to go, the most solid path to mirror polishing success, one can't just go mindlessly about it. Simply use fresh paper instead haha.
The small(?) disadvantage of sanding with paper is that the surface loses its perfect exact geometry (mean flatness, crisp edges) and everything gets rounded off, smoothly so. The question depends on the intended usage of the workpiece, some gems\watches\rings might look better with rounded edges, while others wouldn't. And in some precision machines/applications, one really needs dead-flat mirrorpolish let alone an actual mirror made out of metal!
And doht get me started on buffing wheels! Here is a commercial example of an in many ways ridiculously "mirror finished" EDC cap lifter, fast tracked with a buffing wheel, everything got rounded off, while the original crisp beautiful geometry was advertised as "titanium": comparison.jpg - you pay a +50% extra for the hand finished item, but get a (imho ugily) rounded tool, and you can still see grinding scratches, even on the photo! Of course these scratches are much deeper than one could ever notice the micropitting lol. The manufacturer cannot(!) argue that the rounding of the flats and chamfers was intentional. The intention was to turn the titanium into mirror-polish. And the way she did it (wrongly), the result is a semi-mirror polish plus unintended roundings everywhere. Just imagine how stunning the workpiece would look if the workpiece had kept its original crisp geometry and only the surfaces underwent the dramatic change from titanium to clean undistorted deep mirror finish!! No, the rounding was never intended. Some may like it/prefer it, but it was not intentional. It was a byproduct of how poorly she tried to finish the workpiece: just some simple grinding of the flats, plus some accelerated time against several stages of a buffing wheel omfg.
( this post was more about mirror polishing than about mirror polishing edges, sohri. )
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- Joined
- Oct 24, 2020
- Messages
- 180
H
Haha sounds like quite the journey thanks for sharing your experience and giving some tips
embellishment. Is mirror polishing of hardware (screwheads, pivot heads) a thing, has anyone tried that, does it look beautiful or is it too blingy?
i noticed that the hardware on some of my knives (like the Giantmouse Riv) is kinda blingy but at closer examination it really isn't, just finely finished (fine satin finish looking like polished), concentrically: the longer i look at, for example the pivot screw, the louder it screams at me to get deep mirror-polished! (…)
How about the wire pocket clip? Here are three different grades of polish, can you tell which one has the highest (A+), middle, lowest grade?
All these wire clips fit perfectly on the Riv and i am going to raise their levels to equal the A+. In any case, if anyone's wondering how to get a wire pocket clip from "matt grey/gray finish" (because it is unfinished, just a piece of bent wire!) to A+ mirror polish, without(!) making a mess on your office desk, these are the steps:
You start with a grade B/B-/C+/C/C-/etc-mirror polished or grey/gray or unfinished wire pocket clip. It doesn't matter. No matter which initial finish the wire has, step1 and the following sequence of steps will be the same .:
Mirror-polishing a pocket wire clip is actually the best and easiest mirror-polishing mini project for beginners because the above path is straight-forward (without much looping apart from step1<->step2), involves minimal use of dremel, success is guaranteed, and time/energy commitment is affordable; the typical frustrating challenges of mirror polishing projects (flats, extended parts, extended flats, microscratches, macroscratches, self-inflicted new scratches, looping, cleaning, cleanliness, grinding, pressure control, micropitting, burnishing) are absent, because the "areas" or sections are so small, thin, and every mm² is curved.
As commented before, feel free to use a range of CN diamond pastes (or SiC pastes) instead of industrial grade polishing compounds. CN diamond pastes are made for mirror-polishing after all (and i have them and have used them with success before)! But i will only vouch for the presented 4-step procedure.
And btw, if your wire pocket wire clip is deep gray because it has an explicit sandblasted or explicit stone-washed finish, then it is advisable to leave it that way and not mirror-polish it. Same with black-coated wire pocket clips. The above 4-step instructions are meant for pocket wire clips which are meant to look mirror-polished (but the Chinese factory didn't manage to pull through).
i noticed that the hardware on some of my knives (like the Giantmouse Riv) is kinda blingy but at closer examination it really isn't, just finely finished (fine satin finish looking like polished), concentrically: the longer i look at, for example the pivot screw, the louder it screams at me to get deep mirror-polished! (…)
How about the wire pocket clip? Here are three different grades of polish, can you tell which one has the highest (A+), middle, lowest grade?
All these wire clips fit perfectly on the Riv and i am going to raise their levels to equal the A+. In any case, if anyone's wondering how to get a wire pocket clip from "matt grey/gray finish" (because it is unfinished, just a piece of bent wire!) to A+ mirror polish, without(!) making a mess on your office desk, these are the steps:
You start with a grade B/B-/C+/C/C-/etc-mirror polished or grey/gray or unfinished wire pocket clip. It doesn't matter. No matter which initial finish the wire has, step1 and the following sequence of steps will be the same .:
- step1 (40%): using the WHITE compound on a piece of felt. i got a bag of felt replacements for my AliX dremel kit. i crumble/liquefy some white flakes with a dab of oil and then rub this paste into the felt. no dremel needed, just manually rubbing the loaded felt against the wire will blacken the felt. It is the most important step and really smoothens the surface. this step alone gives you a satisfactory mirror polish of grade B+, unbelievable. Feel free to stop here, bam!
- step2 (30%): you can support step1 with a dremel. i load WHITE compound on a piece of paper tape which i then mount on a PT-holder like some tool from my dremel kit (or a cylindrical ruby hehe). this way you don't consume the tool and don't need to replace it. simply exchange the paper tape with a fresh one or with some other compound on it. It's a great way to get most life out of your rotary tools from the dremel polishing kit. step1 and step2 are not sequential but you'll probably go back back and forth between the two steps. just make sure that every mm² of the wire clip looks equally smooth and mirror polished, with no dull spots anywhere.
- step3 (15%): i have broken_in wetordry SiC sandpaper which is capable of refining the result from the previous steps. i tape a thin stripe of double-sided tape to the back of a piece of that sandpaper (Matador P2000 in my case) and then tape this to my cylindrical Ø3mm ruby and wrap the sandpaper loosely around the ruby. the ruby acts as sandpaper-holder, nothing else. now i rub this tiny roll of sandpaper against the wire, getting a grade A mirror polish in no time! Feel free to stop here.
- step4 (15%): superfinishing with the finest polishing compound you have (in my case, orange merard is finer than osborn blue). i distribute flakes of the compound on a piece of microfibre (mf) cloth, crumble'n rub them with a dab of oil into it. similar to step3, i tape a thin stripe of double-sided tape to the back and then tape this to my cylindrical Ø3mm ruby and wrap the mf cloth loosely around the ruby. the ruby acts as mf cloth-holder, nothing else. now i rub this small roll of mf cloth against the wire, getting a grade A+ mirror polish in no time! step4 is optional but indeed raises the grade to A+ without causing trouble with micropitting (on a wire clip every mm² is curved, so micropitting has less chance of morphing).
Mirror-polishing a pocket wire clip is actually the best and easiest mirror-polishing mini project for beginners because the above path is straight-forward (without much looping apart from step1<->step2), involves minimal use of dremel, success is guaranteed, and time/energy commitment is affordable; the typical frustrating challenges of mirror polishing projects (flats, extended parts, extended flats, microscratches, macroscratches, self-inflicted new scratches, looping, cleaning, cleanliness, grinding, pressure control, micropitting, burnishing) are absent, because the "areas" or sections are so small, thin, and every mm² is curved.
As commented before, feel free to use a range of CN diamond pastes (or SiC pastes) instead of industrial grade polishing compounds. CN diamond pastes are made for mirror-polishing after all (and i have them and have used them with success before)! But i will only vouch for the presented 4-step procedure.
And btw, if your wire pocket wire clip is deep gray because it has an explicit sandblasted or explicit stone-washed finish, then it is advisable to leave it that way and not mirror-polish it. Same with black-coated wire pocket clips. The above 4-step instructions are meant for pocket wire clips which are meant to look mirror-polished (but the Chinese factory didn't manage to pull through).
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These days i am enjoying my STANLEY 1913 / STANLEY PMI 16oz beer pint tumblers and 8oz coffee travel mugs which are double-wall vacuum-insulated stainless steel containers (with or without plastic lid). The US mirror edge wasn't there but the Japanese competition does exactly that, veery impressive:
The real STANLEY problem which doesn't get addressed often enough by youtube reviewers is the accelerated loss of carbonation in your carbonated cold drinks (sparkling mineral water, beer, coke/pepsi/sprite, club soda, fizz water, sparkling wine, champagne). Carbonated drinks remain cold but go stale very fast in STANLEY products, there is no denying or ignoring! The Stanley brand is aware of that problem and tried to introduce a smooth coating called "CERAMIVAC™ FINISH A smoother surface that keeps your drinks carbonated longer. Plus no funky metallic taste or smell." but the amzn customer reviews were devastating because the coating had quality issues. The company has unlisted (discontinued?) the ceramivac-finished products from its shop. Whatever you can still find on the www are remaining stock, remnants, no thanks.
Has anyone tried to mirror-polish the interior of his STANLEY/YETI/KLEAN KANTEEN/... tumblers/mugs/cups/bottles/etc?
i have the impression that the interior is a "stainless steel coating" on top of the stainless steel sheet metal. If that is so, sanding and polishing the interior could cause more damage than good.
The Zojirushi brand, another Japanese competitor producing in de China and Thailand, calls their pseudo-mirror polished finish SlickSteel™, a fancy name for the result of electropolishing. Their beer tumblers have other quality issues though, so no way i could recommend them after reading translated leviews on amzn-japan.
The real STANLEY problem which doesn't get addressed often enough by youtube reviewers is the accelerated loss of carbonation in your carbonated cold drinks (sparkling mineral water, beer, coke/pepsi/sprite, club soda, fizz water, sparkling wine, champagne). Carbonated drinks remain cold but go stale very fast in STANLEY products, there is no denying or ignoring! The Stanley brand is aware of that problem and tried to introduce a smooth coating called "CERAMIVAC™ FINISH A smoother surface that keeps your drinks carbonated longer. Plus no funky metallic taste or smell." but the amzn customer reviews were devastating because the coating had quality issues. The company has unlisted (discontinued?) the ceramivac-finished products from its shop. Whatever you can still find on the www are remaining stock, remnants, no thanks.
Has anyone tried to mirror-polish the interior of his STANLEY/YETI/KLEAN KANTEEN/... tumblers/mugs/cups/bottles/etc?
i have the impression that the interior is a "stainless steel coating" on top of the stainless steel sheet metal. If that is so, sanding and polishing the interior could cause more damage than good.
The Zojirushi brand, another Japanese competitor producing in de China and Thailand, calls their pseudo-mirror polished finish SlickSteel™, a fancy name for the result of electropolishing. Their beer tumblers have other quality issues though, so no way i could recommend them after reading translated leviews on amzn-japan.
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You can insert the images in your post like this:
While i cannot prove it, i dare to claim that the erratic deeper scratches stem from the early stages (320 diamond stone), yet not from the stone itself but from the steel shavings off of that stone. The steel shavings have no place to go, or some of them get stuck in the stone.
To get the deeper scratches out, one would need to go back a couple of steps and grind with a permaclean stone until you've reached the depth of the deeper scratches, hoping that you didn't create new deep scratches in the process. Very challenging.
In your place i'd just use the knife and from now on sharpen the edge with higher grit stones only (i like ceramics). They produce micro shavings only, and over time your original deeper scratches will be gone. It'll take some time until you get there. Basically i am saying, do NOT go back to the diamond stones.
Or you could use ultrafast-cutting lapping films like the 𝕻𝕿𝕾 𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖔𝖉 hehe, if you're in a hurry. bev and draws.
This "permaclean stone" that you mentioned, what is that. According to google that is not an actual term for anything to do with sharpening. Please enlightenYou can insert the images in your post like this:
While i cannot prove it, i dare to claim that the erratic deeper scratches stem from the early stages (320 diamond stone), yet not from the stone itself but from the steel shavings off of that stone. The steel shavings have no place to go, or some of them get stuck in the stone.
To get the deeper scratches out, one would need to go back a couple of steps and grind with a permaclean stone until you've reached the depth of the deeper scratches, hoping that you didn't create new deep scratches in the process. Very challenging.
In your place i'd just use the knife and from now on sharpen the edge with higher grit stones only (i like ceramics). They produce micro shavings only, and over time your original deeper scratches will be gone. It'll take some time until you get there. Basically i am saying, do NOT go back to the diamond stones.
Or you could use ultrafast-cutting lapping films like the 𝕻𝕿𝕾 𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖔𝖉 hehe, if you're in a hurry. bev and draws.
