Can the Paramilitary 2 be considered a gravity knife?

A PM2 will most likely get you arrested, yes. You could prob get away with carrying it if you have it totally concealed (NOT CLIPPED) and don't do anything that exposes you to LE contact. Carrying a knife clipped is a well known way to get yourself in trouble in the city. The safest bet is to carry a small fixed blade (under 4") concealed or a non locking folder concealed.
 
I'm in NYC. DONT CLIP IT EVER. You could get pulled of a train or stopped and frisked because the cop knows he can hit you with a "dangerous knife citation" and run your name for warrants. A para2 is illegal cause it locks. I carry illegal knives in NYC all the time I just don't clip it or pull it out on the street, though I do whittle in the park, but I've never had a problem. Though I'm also white so cops don't target me the same way they do minorities up here.

The trick is to carry something around 3" with a strong detente and non-threatening - small sebenza for me, I clip it in my waistband with the clip under my belt when it's not in my pocket - and stay away from cops. A para 2 will most likely get you a night in the tombs if you're stopped for some reason.
 
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Sucks you don't live in a free city, maybe just carry a non locking folder like the Spyderco UK Penknife. You can use the PM2 at home or when you leave the oppression of NY to visit another state.
 
I also live in NYC. Got stopped on the street a couple of weeks ago for the Leatherman Charge clip that some street cops saw. They stopped me, pulled it out of my pocket and checked it. Had it been my Skyline, I'd have been arrested.

A PM2? Yeah, carrying that in NYC, especially clipped to your pocket, would be incredibly stupid.
 
Cassander said:
A para2 is illegal cause it locks.
Click to expand...

We have to be careful with the wording. Technically, by the letter of the law, a Para 2 is NOT illegal because it locks. But cops may choose to find it illegal if they can flick it open in some manner, which they would then classify it as an automatic or "gravity" knife.

In NYC, it's not worth the risk. Carry a slipjoint or tighten that pivot down as tight as possible without completely seizing the blade. And regardless of what you carry, keep it buried in your pocket or bag, completely out of sight.

I carry SAKs and GECs in the City.

P.S. - To the OP: Everyone's assumption here is that you are a law-abiding citizen in general and do not intend to use your knife illegally. If that's not the case, then disregard all of the advice here and don't carry a knife at all.
 
Check the law, any locking folder in NYC is illegal. But fixed blades and two-hand opening slip joints under 4" are legal EVERYTHING else is up to the cop's discretion. If they can push a button (or disengage a lock) and the blade falls out, like a well oiled benchmade, it is a gravity knife.

The law also states that anything that stores tension in the closed position is illegal as it is an automatic knife.

The cop will also ask you what the purpose of the knife is. If you answer "self defense" he'll fit you for a pair of bracelets. My canned answer is "I use it all the time at work and I grew up in GA and have always carried a pocket knife since I can remember." Haven't used it yet but a cop I know said "always tell them it's for work." Boxes or something.
 
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Cassander said:
... any locking folder in NYC is illegal.
Click to expand...

Technically, not true.

A locking mechanism doesn't make a knife illegal in NYC, the ability to flick it open and therefore deem it a "gravity knife" does.

Here is a section of the New York code as appears here http://knife-expert.com/ny.txt:


Updated 7/18/2008 10/27/2005 3/15/06

New York - Penal Law Section 265.01. A person is guilty of
criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun
gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal
knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles,
chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or
slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or
(5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a
citizen of the United States...
Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A
misdemeanor.

- Section 265.00 Definitions...
4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife
which has a blade which opens automatically by hand
pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in
the handle of the knife.
5. "Gravity knife" means any
knife has blade which is released from the handle or
sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application
of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other
device. [Note: In NYC, and potentially in other NY
jurisdictions, this definition is construed to apply to
ANY folding knife with a blade that locks open. ]
5-a. "Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which
has a blade which can be projected from the handle by hand
pressure applied to a button, lever, spring or other
device in the handle of the knife.
5-b. "Metal knuckle knife"
means a weapon that, when closed, cannot function as a set of
metal knuckles, nor as a knife and when open, can function as
both a set of metal knuckles as well as a knife.


- 265.04. It shall be unlawful for any person under the age
of sixteen to possess any... dangerous knife... A person
who violates the provisions of this section shall be
adjudged a juvenile delinquent. [Found unconstitutionally
vague by Superior Court, 1982; finding reversed by Court
of Appeals, 1983]

- Section 265.10... 1. Any person who manufactures or causes
to be manufactured... any switchblade knife, gravity
knife, pilum ballistic knife... is guilty of a class A
misdemeanor... 4. Any person who disposes of any of
the weapons, instruments or appliances specified in
subdivision one of section 265.01, except a firearm, is
guilty of a class A misdemeanor, and he is guilty of a
class D felony if he has been previously convicted of any
crime.

- Section 265.15 Presumption of possession, unlawful intent,
and defacement... 2. The presence
in any stolen vehicle of any weapon... specified in
sections 265.01... is presumptive evidence of its
possession by all persons occupying such vehicle... 3. The
presence in an automobile, other than a stolen one or a
public omnibus, of any firearm... gravity knife,
switchblade knife... is presumptive evidence of its
possession by all persons occupying such vehicle...
except... (a) if such weapon... is found upon the person
of one of the occupants therein; b) is such weapon... is
found in an automobile which is being operated for hire by
a duly licensed driver... then such presumption shall not
apply to the driver...
4... The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk,
stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument,
appliance or substance designed, made or adapted for use
primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent
to use the same unlawfully against another.



S 265.20 Exemptions.
a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11,
265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:

1. Possession of any of the weapons, instruments, appliances or
substances specified in sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05
and 270.05 by the following:
(a) Persons in the military service of the state of New York when duly
authorized by regulations issued by the adjutant general to possess the
same.
(b) Police officers as defined in subdivision thirty-four of section
1.20 of the criminal procedure law.
(c) Peace officers as defined by section 2.10 of the criminal
procedure law.
(d) Persons in the military or other service of the United States, in
pursuit of official duty or when duly authorized by federal law,
regulation or order to possess the same.
(e) Persons employed in fulfilling defense contracts with the
government of the United States or agencies thereof when possession of
the same is necessary for manufacture, transport, installation and
testing under the requirements of such contract.
(f) A person voluntarily surrendering such weapon, instrument,
appliance or substance, provided that such surrender shall be made to
the superintendent of the division of state police or a member thereof
designated by such superintendent, or to the sheriff of the county in
which such person resides, or in the county of Nassau or in the towns of
Babylon, Brookhaven, Huntington, Islip and Smithtown in the county of
Suffolk to the commissioner of police or a member of the police
department thereof designated by such commissioner, or if such person
resides in a city, town other than one named in this subparagraph, or
village to the police commissioner or head of the police force or
department thereof or to a member of the force or department designated
by such commissioner or head; and provided, further, that the same shall
be surrendered by such person in accordance with such terms and
conditions as may be established by such superintendent, sheriff, police
force or department. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as
granting immunity from prosecution for any crime or offense except that
of unlawful possession of such weapons, instruments, appliances or
substances surrendered as herein provided. A person who possesses any
such weapon, instrument, appliance or substance as an executor or
administrator or any other lawful possessor of such property of a
decedent may continue to possess such property for a period not over
fifteen days. If such property is not lawfully disposed of within such
period the possessor shall deliver it to an appropriate official
described in this paragraph or such property may be delivered to the
superintendent of state police. Such officer shall hold it and shall
thereafter deliver it on the written request of such executor,
administrator or other lawful possessor of such property to a named
person, provided such named person is licensed to or is otherwise
lawfully permitted to possess the same. If no request to deliver the
property is received by such official within two years of the delivery
of such property, such official shall dispose of it in accordance with
the provisions of section 400.05 of this chapter.

2. Possession of a machine-gun, large capacity ammunition feeding
device, firearm, switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic
knife, billy or blackjack by a warden, superintendent, headkeeper or
deputy of a state prison, penitentiary, workhouse, county jail or other
institution for the detention of persons convicted or accused of crime
or detained as witnesses in criminal cases, in pursuit of official duty
or when duly authorized by regulation or order to possess the same...

6. Possession of a switchblade or gravity knife for use while hunting,
trapping or fishing by a person carrying a valid license issued to him
pursuant to section 11-0713 of the environmental conservation law...

8. The manufacturer of machine-guns, assault weapons, large capacity
ammunition feeding devices, disguised guns, pilum ballistic knives,
switchblade or gravity knives, billies or blackjacks as merchandise and
the disposal and shipment thereof direct to a regularly constituted or
appointed state or municipal police department, sheriff, policeman or
other peace officer, or to a state prison, penitentiary, workhouse,
county jail or other institution for the detention of persons convicted
or accused of crime or held as witnesses in criminal cases, or to the
military service of this state or of the United States...



New York Case Law:
- Knife... was not a "gravity knife"... even though blade of
knife could be released from its sheath by flick of the
wrist; in order to lock blade of knife in open position,
two additional steps were required... (1989).
- Butterfly or "Balisong" knife, a folding knife with a split
handle, did not have blade released by force of gravity or
application of centrifugal force, and did not constitute a
"gravity knife"... (1987).
- "A bayonet was within class of weapons designated as 'any
other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon'.... (1937)
- "Under rule of ejusdem generis [of the same kind]... an ice
pick was a 'dangerous weapon'... (1948)
- "Evidence that defendant wielded butcher knife in presence
of others was sufficient to support charge..." (1987)
- "...possession of knife 15 to 18 inches long was legally
sufficient to establish prima facie case of carrying
dangerous weapon as felony..." (1963)
- "Accused's possession of knife in case attached to his
belt, with long handle protruding and case sheathing blade
concealed inside accused's trousers, did not constitute
violation... absent evidence of design on accused's part
to use the knife unlawfully." (1974)
- "That parolee was found in possession of straight razor
could not, without more, establish his possession of
dangerous instrument or deadly weapon..." (1981)
- "The possession of a razor by a barber for use in his
trade, even if it was on his person, was not within...
this section." (1914)
- "Paint brush found in possession of a housepainter while on
his way home from work was not the kind of instrument
covered by... this section, prohibiting the carrying of a
dangerous weapon." (1962)
 
I've read that same statute myself and could've sworn "locked in place" shows up a few times. Also since about 2011 no one in NYC can sell a locking folder. A couple stores I know had their inventory confiscated at the time with the exception of old stock custom folders. To this day, the custom knife case at Paragon Sports on broadway is the only place you'll find a locking folder for sale in NYC unless it's on a leatherman. And if the cop thinks a folding knife is illegal you're spending the night in jail if he wants you to. And on average they have no tolerance for knives.
 
The law does not ban locking knives at all! It bans locking knives that can flick open. Even the NYC DA Vance stressed this fact. There are locking folders with square half stops that you will never flick open and they are legal. Please only quote the real law here folks. As to "stores tension" being a part of the law??? I NEVER even heard that one raised by the worst ADA in NYC...Where did you ever see that wording??? It does not exist in the written law or case law. Once again lets keep to the facts not what we heard somewhere said by someone who does not know the real facts. The enforcement is bad enough without people here adding wording that is no where in the written law....
 
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It was in a legal definition of automatic knife. It spoke of a mechanism that stores energy in the closed position to deploy the knife. I didn't make it up though the wording may not be verbatim. Makes sense to me.
 
the definition is above for NYS and NYC. You may have read it for another state as I have seen it myself but not in NY. The locking folder law is NYC ADmin code 10-134 and it refers to retail sale of locking folders with a blade over 4". There are many NYC stores that sell locking folders still...Queens, Brooklyn < Staten Island and the Bronx are all parts of NYC and they are everywhere. In Manhattan there is an issue due to DA Vance...

here is the law about sales:
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ADC/10/1/10-134

Here is the law concerning open carry and 4" in NYC:
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ADC/10/1/10-133

The state law is posted above BUT is the Bernard Levine version where he gives his opinion of the NYS law about all locking knives being possibly illegal ( his Note). I wrote to him, and told him my understanding of the law, and he agreed they are not all banned , but he did not change the opinion he put in.
 
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Ok I should've said you won't find them in Manhattan. It was just a definition anyway. You know of any good knife shops otherwise? Cause I can't one that even has anything decent beyond Paragon or maybe REI/EMS. Used to be a great little shop in Soho "three little Indians" or something like that I think it was called. They were the only place in the city that had Striders and a lot of other high end stuff. I think the guy died though unfortunately.

But why would the locking folder law refer to folders over 4" when everything over 4" is already illegal? And I've heard this directly from the mouths of 2 shop managers who had their locking knives confiscated.

And for all practical purposes the types of locking folders we all carry are illegal. A back lock Case-style nail-nick knife is your best bet for locking folder that won't get you into any trouble. Though I still wouldn't put it past a NYC cop to take the collar anyway.

To the OP: your Para2 is illegal on a couple counts. Take the clip off so you're never tempted to clip it and don't pull it out on the street or in front of people you don't know and you'll be fine as long as you don't give the cop a reason to run your pockets. And always remember, "it's for work." But I would personally never carry anything more aggressive looking than a sebenza.
 
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I think our posts have crossed each other....There are a few locking folders that are legal. Most of the liner lock Dirt buster types are very stiff to open and can not be flicked. There are a few well made US knives that have a square half stop instead of the normal rounded pivot, and you will never get them to flick. I agree that most of the thumb stud openers can be flicked. That is the main reason for the Knife Rights law suit. It is not possible to clearly know what is illegal....
 
Your last line is the main problem. A cop can just deem your knife "dangerous" and write you or worse.
 
Cassander said:
I've read that same statute myself and could've sworn "locked in place" shows up a few times. Also since about 2011 no one in NYC can sell a locking folder. A couple stores I know had their inventory confiscated at the time with the exception of old stock custom folders. To this day, the custom knife case at Paragon Sports on broadway is the only place you'll find a locking folder for sale in NYC unless it's on a leatherman. And if the cop thinks a folding knife is illegal you're spending the night in jail if he wants you to. And on average they have no tolerance for knives.
Click to expand...

I hear what you're saying. I remember the stupid confiscation of legal knives from legally operating stores by the edict of then Manhattan district attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. as a supposed show of force against violent crime. Not NYC's finest hour, to say the least.

But if locking knives were technically illegal in NYC, then not even Paragon could sell them to this day.

To my understanding, it is NYPD cops seeking to boost their anti-crime statistics that make this an issue for all of us by targeting knife carriers and making an effort to try and prove any knife they find in one's possession to be "flickable," and therefore a gravity knife.

Personally, I don't carry anything but a SAK or slipjoint in NYC. But my original point was that the letter of the law does not forbid locking folders, cops seeking to boost their anti-crime stats do.
 
I got stopped for a clipped BM griptilian H20 in Fire Island... luckily the idiot cop's supervisor came over and told him it wasn't a gravity knife. Either way, I'd keep it hidden and be on your best behavior. If you're going into that communist city, you're better off playing by the rules unless you have the cash for a good lawyer, because you'll be getting one whether or not you're in the clear. Seconding UKPK or even just a regular swiss army knife.
 
I see I was, strictly speaking, wrong about locking being an element that makes the knife illegal in all cases.
 
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