Can you say bootleg?

Longtrang

Longtrang

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Jan 21, 2010
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We knock the Chinese bootleg knife sellers on eBay but we have a big name rip off artist right here in our own backyard. I am just wondering how this is not illegal. Can you really just so openly steal designs like this without repercussion?

Bayley Knife (formally the Bear Grylls knife)

http://www.bayleyknife.com/site/index.aspx
bailyknife1.jpg

baileyknife2.jpg


Red Raven Six ASK6

http://www.redscorpionsix.com/catalog/edged-weapons-and-tools
IMG_4004.jpg

IMG_3969-2.jpg

IMG_3951_0.jpg
 
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Not exactly the same.
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Neither are the CRK knock-offs or the Busse knock offs sold on ebay. It even has the same sheath, maybe a cheaper version though. Thats like saying "Ice, Ice Baby" is not exactly the same as "Under Pressure" :D
You have to admit though, the ASK6 would not even be in existance if not for the Bayley.
 
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MORIMOTOM said:
well, you can take some comfort in the fact that redscorpion6 was banned here a while back.
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...and that RS6's products are not well thought of because of his prior shenanigans.
 
And that Hall of Shame designtions are made by the Administrator.
The rest of us put evaluations in FEEDBACK until he says otherwise.
 
In my worthless opinion, there is nothing unique in this knife design. In fact, there little unique in 99.9% of useful knife designs.

As to the illegality of ripping off someones design, how much $$$$$ do you have for a lawyer? A patent, for example, is only as good as your ability to defend it. The government is not going to help you.
 
There's some interesting case law surrounding this, look up the lawsuit between Gibson Guitars and Paul Reed Smith Guitars; Gibson sued PRS a while back when PRS introduced their single cut guitar that Gibson claimed was a copy of Gibson's famous Les Paul. PRS won the lawsuit after proving that the PRS guitar could be distinguished easily from a Les Paul from the back of a room.

This would be design patent infringement at best, which was what Gibson claimed PRS had done, and it's VERY hard to prove that a rip off infringes on a design patent if the rip off changes anything on the design. Typically speaking tho, if anything is changed, it's not a rip off. Whether the design has been changed for the better or not, that's for consumers to decide.
 
There are considerable differences among those pictures... some major similarities, yes, but that it to be expected. Ford can't sue Toyota because the Prius has four tires and a steering wheel just like Ford's Model T did.

Similar, yes. Did RS begin with a picture of the Bayley knife? I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me. Questionably-unethical? Yeah. But legally-actionable? I seriously doubt it.

Can we, however, disrespect RS6 for their unethical behavior and lack of creativity? Of course we can... and should.
 
Just because you make something a certain way doesn't mean none can copy it without permission.

Busse has the talon hole, spyderco the "hole" and the serration pattern i thought (at one time), but otherwise spyder-logo excepted you could exactly copy the frn handle for example. I'm no lawyer but i'm pretty sure you need to protect your property to claim infringement, and that property needs to be pretty specifically different to patent it.

The Randall model 1, is copied pretty deliberately by several companies/makers yet I don't think randall has a legal claim against this? I'm pretty sure everyone knows whos pattern it is. Thats maybe another example that comes to mind.
 
I find it ironic that you point a finger at copying and yet you chose to copy Carlos Hathcocks nickname by the Vietnamese as your forum name.
 
trentu said:
I find it ironic that you point a finger at copying and yet you chose to copy Carlos Hathcocks nickname by the Vietnamese as your forum name.
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There is a difference between a tribute to my hero and stealing someone else’s' work and claiming it as my own. I never said I was Carlos Hathcock, but RS6 is pimping that ASK knife like they designed it. Come to think of it I don't see one original design in their entire catalogue. Every knife they make has a more expensive original counterpart. Even if that's not illegal, it should be.
 
Longtrang said:
There is a difference between a tribute to my hero and stealing someone else’s' work and claiming it as my own. I never said I was Carlos Hathcock, but RS6 is pimping that ASK knife like they designed it. Come to think of it I don't see one original design in their entire catalogue. Every knife they make has a more expensive original counterpart. Even if that's not illegal, it should be.
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mr. hathcock/white feather/gunny,

illegal or not, the best we can often do is alert others to what we feel are dishonest business practices.

regardless some will spend their money on these products.
 
I don't believe that the design of a certain knife is grounds to call someone a rip off artist. Just look at all the pocket knife designs or Loveless knives, and yes Randall's that were copied over the years by some very famous and not so famous knifemakers. Design influence is one thing, using the other companies name to advertise your product is another. Unless the design has a trade infringment patent I doubt you would make a case. However, selling a knife as many internet listings do using the makers name somewhere in the listing is the issue. Just my $.02 FWIW.
 
from his website...
Special Message
To All the Bladeforum Members: This blade is Made in the USA at the RS6 Blades Production Shop. So now you know the facts.

hey at least we got a proper shoutout! made enough noise that he felt the need to state it for everyone to see on the interwebs! we should feel special
gene
 
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