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Canada Customs "BM 710 Prohibited Weapon"

L

Leemah1

Joined
Jan 4, 2001
Messages
322
Dear Forumites,

I ask of your advice.

Recently I've had a BM710 shipped to me from the U.S. This knife has been detained by Cdn Customs since they have been determined it can be opened using centrifugal force. Therefore, it meets their definition of Prohibited weapon. The shipper assures me the blade tension has not been adjusted. I believe the blade has similar tension to any Axis that is shipped from BM.

Customs informs me, 2-3 officers will try to open the blade using centrifugal force and if successful it is sent to the Prohibited Importation Unit. Officers may use any technique and amount of force they choose.
IMO, the decisions are made completely arbitrarily and without any measurable standards.

Oddly enough these knives are available for sale at the local mall.

Canadians may want to consider some of the following options:

1) Have the shipper adjust blade tension so you need a crowbar to open the knife.I'm not sure however, if this may damage bushings, etc. This may be somewhat risky since Customs can use any technique and amount of force...anything goes.

2) Have the knife sent with blade removed from handle or in a disassembled state. This way Customs cannot determine blade tension.

3) Have the blade sent in one package and handle in another. Probably the most safe.

Benchmade probably does not like any of these options. ;)

One of my options is to Appeal the decision.
How would you argue this case?

Gord

PS: Also posted at the Benchmade Forum
 
How to argue the case? I had a package with a BM 942 opened by customs recently, and they just taped it back up and shipped it to me without making a fuss about it. I'd wondered myself about that (since I can easily snap mine open with a flick of the wrist). Is it not a good enough argument to point out that the item can be purchased locally, and as such MUST be legal? I really hate Canada customs sometimes :grumpy:
 
I don't think you have to much to worry about. When I recieved knives from Benchmade for stock they were very tight. There was no way it could have been opened using centrifugal force. Even if this one knife is the exception case, I don't see how they can "steal" it from you since as you already stated many stores already sell these knives in Canada.
 
Touchy subject, well my friend there really isn't much you can do expect have it sent in pieces... An option your going to have to draft up some documents proving that it requires manual force and these knives are legally sold in Canada (If you have a friend who is an LEO this is very helpful) Or talk to Customs over the phone or face to face, you have to PROVE that it requries manual force. Oh yes a very important tip: Knives that become lose with use aren't considered prohibited weapons.

Hope this helps.
 
Hey Guys....

This is a Real touchy subject guys...

Once Canada customs get their mitts on it,, and it is deemed Prohibited,, it's going to be hard to get it back,and I mean Seriously hard...

I had a customers AFCK stuck in customs for 8 months.. The only saving grace was that it was marked "For Repair" and it was obviously being sent in for work by me...

This AFCK was soo loose, or smooth if you want to call it that, a slight flick of the wrist would open it.. It didn't take much....

I sent a long letter to Canada customs, probably a couple of hours of phone time and about $150.00 in long distance to get this knife out of jail,so to speak. I really took a bath on it, but I wanted to get it back for my customer, so thats what I had to do..

I can tell you from experience that you are in for a long wait...If you are going to work at getting it back, you are going to need names. Supervisors, officer who deemed it Prohibited and they also have a weapon's expert. Luckily this fellow was on my side and deemed it not Prohibited... You need to talk with all of these people personally if you even have a shot...

Get names,,keep good notes, time and date and name and make sure you ask for the officers badge number.Supervisors will give you their name, inspection officers won't. Ask for badge # (12345) if he isn't there find out when he will be there. You will need to sway this person to your side of the fence...

If you can get the weapons officer to deem it not prohibited, you've got your foot in the door... Be prepared to jump through some hoops.Some may be flaming hoops. you may have to bull$hit a little.

Be professional, don't raise your voice and talk to them in a manner as if they were God. In this case... They Are! One wrong move on your part, and kiss it goodbye... This is hard to do as it seems they are giving you the run around,,and no one knows what the other person is doing..The Wheels work very, very slow at Canada customs...

However I will say this.. They are very professional, and very helpful at getting me the answers I needed. Its a game and you need to play by their rules... Before its over,, you will be talking with several people in Toronto, then it will be moved over and you will be talking with someone in Ottawa...

Relax, take your time and again be very professional. You will be needing to write an appeal letter, so work on that now in case this thing goes south on you.

Good luck...

ttyle

Eric...
 
In this case, I was the shipper and was aghast when I read his email stating the knife was imprisoned! The knife is like new in box, was pocket carried and never adjusted for tension, as I only rely on pulling back on the axis lock to release it and the knife will smoothly swing open, but with the big blade on the 710, it has enough weight that the blade does all the work and can easily out class the retention the knife's lock mechanism holds on the blade.

But as others noted, this knife is available in stores in Canada which didn't seem to phase the Custom's agent, more likely cause them to look closer at the stores. :(

Gord did say the fellow seemed understanding but was firm on the subject of their version of the law and how to read/describe knife openings...

Gord and I both hope to resolve this in a clean manner and quickly, if it comes down to having the knife returned to me and I take the blade out and ship separate to him.

The one other dealings I've had knife wise with those fellows up north, was BillyJoeBob, we shipped sametime, I received his knife within a weeks span, while mine arrived into Canada and took a very long route to his house but made it the knife did, without a letter from the Customs officers.

Sad in PA...:(
G2
 
Hey G2....

I hate to throw a bad taste into this thread,, but if it gets deemed a prohibited weapon,, ,and you've used up the appeal process....It's a thing of the past...

They get destroyed..They don't return anything to anyone. It basically becomes the property of Canada Customs and gets chopped up...

I suppose someones got quite the collection of stuff somewhere.. I know if I was the guy loading the boxes of stuff into the truck,, there would be a serious weight difference somewhere along the line....

I agree with the 710 issue.. The Axis lock does release the blade.. This i'm told by an LEO could be considered a gravity knife...

I wish you guys all the luck in the world and hope my previous post helped you in some way...

ttyle

Eric...
 
Most of the time, weapons seizied by Customs end up in a vault for future profiling or in a crocked customs officer's house.
 
Thank you all for your thoughts.

Normark,
You offer some good advice...thx.

I do have 90 days to file my appeal and hope to talk someone of common sense, perhaps a Supervisor and the Weapons Expert.

One concern is where do they draw the line, virtually any folder can be opened with centrifugal force, Spyderco, Buck and probably Swiss Army knives. Each officer may use different techniques and amounts of force. Maybe one officer ate his Wheaties for breakfast and that knife opened just too easy. If this was done on the "Knife Opener 2000 Machine"it would be diiferent. The results could be measured and too bad for me.....

Option #3 on the letter from Customs is:

You may EXPORT the properly reported goods at YOUR EXPENSE under Customs supervision, forfeiting your rights to an appeal.

This is another option I plan on exploring.

Knowing the way things work, I will have to fly from B.C. to Ontario for "Customs supervision.":rolleyes:

Maybe I could bring out some good West Coast beer and share with Normark!:D
 
Do #3, most people dont get that option.

Ive had a few customs confiscations, although I was knowingly importing something I shouldnt.
 
Leemah1, may i ask you where you bought the knife? Was it online dealer, private sale, ebay? Brand new or used?
 
The "this knife is commonly available in Canada" argument won't work, since each knife is "judged" on it's own [de]merits. That is, Customs hasn't prohibited any Benchmade 710, just yours.

If it's important to you you can do one of several things:
- file an appeal, citing the law, because if the Customs agent has to operate a device and then flick his wrist to open the knife, it is not being opened by "centrifugal force" alone and is not prohibited;
- take a bath on this one and order another, you takes your chances again, but it'll probably get through;
- take a bath on this one and buy one locally;
- take a bath on this one and buy one from a Canadian e-tailer.

Notice how a lot of these options contain the phrase "take a bath", because probably you will. Appealing might work, but you may have to hire a lawyer and it'll take a long time.

IANAL, but this is my understanding of the situation.

Pierre
 
Originally posted by musky hunter
Leemah1, may i ask you where you bought the knife? Was it online dealer, private sale, ebay? Brand new or used?
Click to expand...

I purchased the knife by private sale. Described as "excellent shape, pocket carry, not much if anything cut with her..." I consider it technically used but in new condition.

Originally posted by crosman177
Do #3, most people dont get that option.
Click to expand...

If I can export from Vancouver, great...
Flying to Ontario..maybe $750. No thanks...I would rather"take a bath"

Originally posted by Rubber Ducky
If it's important to you you can do one of several things:
- file an appeal, citing the law, because if the Customs agent has to operate a device and then flick his wrist to open the knife, it is not being opened by "centrifugal force" alone and is not prohibited;
Click to expand...

Thx RD. I will find out if they are activating the Axis bar prior to flicking it open.
 
Originally posted by Rubber Ducky
The "this knife is commonly available in Canada" argument won't work, since each knife is "judged" on it's own [de]merits. That is, Customs hasn't prohibited any Benchmade 710, just yours.
Click to expand...

I did not think it would. I just wanted to see if I could get an explanation.....they did'nt bite. ;)
 
You can file an appeal and get it back.

It happens quite often. Contact Customs to get the proper forms to fill out to get a Tribunal.

Good luck

Originally posted by Leemah1
Dear Forumites,

I ask of your advice.

Recently I've had a BM710 shipped to me from the U.S. This knife has been detained by Cdn Customs since they have been determined it can be opened using centrifugal force. Therefore, it meets their definition of Prohibited weapon. The shipper assures me the blade tension has not been adjusted. I believe the blade has similar tension to any Axis that is shipped from BM.

Customs informs me, 2-3 officers will try to open the blade using centrifugal force and if successful it is sent to the Prohibited Importation Unit. Officers may use any technique and amount of force they choose.
IMO, the decisions are made completely arbitrarily and without any measurable standards.

Oddly enough these knives are available for sale at the local mall.

Canadians may want to consider some of the following options:

1) Have the shipper adjust blade tension so you need a crowbar to open the knife.I'm not sure however, if this may damage bushings, etc. This may be somewhat risky since Customs can use any technique and amount of force...anything goes.

2) Have the knife sent with blade removed from handle or in a disassembled state. This way Customs cannot determine blade tension.

3) Have the blade sent in one package and handle in another. Probably the most safe.

Benchmade probably does not like any of these options. ;)

One of my options is to Appeal the decision.
How would you argue this case?

Gord

PS: Also posted at the Benchmade Forum
Click to expand...
 
Hi Leemah...

First off,, no problem on the advice.. I want to see you get it back as well..

I suggest not playing the Axis lock route just yet. Keep it to yourself for now and lets see what their next move is.. Save that card for another time....

These people are not unreasonable. They aren't out to destroy your life and take your $hit.. They're just doing their job..

Your job right now is to clarify the position of that knife. You need to get the weapons expert to agree with you. How you do that is a tricky thing...

More than likely,, the expert will side with you... Thats all he does is play with $hit like this Every day.. This isn't the first AXis he's seen, and won't be the last.

Just do your letter and talk with whomever you can. Make them understand that you are very serious and interested in getting your property back. It can be done, but its not as easy as signing papers,,your going to have to dance a little for them...

Now,, Interesting..

Exactly what does this mean:

""You may EXPORT the properly reported goods at YOUR EXPENSE under Customs supervision, forfeiting your rights to an appeal.""

Does this mean you can have it shipped back to the person who sent it ??

Just play along with it and see what happens... Find out who the main players are and speak with them personally... Especially the Weapons Expert...

Drop me an email...

ericn@mnsi.net

ttyle

Eric..
 
Based on solely that the BM710 is sold on local shops would not do anything.
Some dummy at Customs deemed the CRKT M16-Z tanto with serrations is a centrifugally opened knife, and House of Knives have yet to carry them back. It was one CRKT M16-Z that made all those stores to return the knives.
Do as normark says. It does have sense in it. If you get their weapons expert on your side, I think it would be much easier.
 
You can file an appeal and get it back.
Click to expand...

I agree with Jack. You can find all the info on Canada Customs web site. You can download Form (B3?) and even some examples how to fill it up. State in your letter that this knife is available for sale in Canada and give the stores' addresses. It took me 3 month to get my Kershaw minitask back. Good luck, you will need it.
 
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