Canada Customs "BM 710 Prohibited Weapon"

Jeff, I might be moving to Arizona, North Carolina or Flordia with in the next few years. Don't get me started about our gun control in Canada... PLEASE DON'T!
 
Originally posted by J-man_the_jet
All I can say is that this is pointless, if they are going to make Automatics, Balisongs and Gravity knives illegal can't they make an exact defination so illegitmate knives can't be mistaken for legit ones!
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When what they *really* want to do is keep people from having ALL MANNER of weapons, why would they make the law comprehensive? They WANT everyone confused about what's illegal and what's legal, because that gives them the "discretion" they want to make up the law on the spot, as it suits them!

This is exactly what has happened in California with the prohibitions on "assault weapons." No one has pinned down the definition, so they ban whatever they feel like.

Makes ya so warm and fuzzy about being taken care of by your government, doesn't it? :barf:
 
Peacefuljeffrey,

I wasn't arguing with you. I was just saying that it probably offended some people here. I wasn't referring about somebody talking about my country per se, I was referring to some foreigner coming to my country and spitting on my flag. Sorry if I sound violent to you, but it really takes a good bit to get me mad enough for voilence. God, Family, and Country. I take offensive remarks and actions toward those things a bit personally I guess (and no, I don't go kicking a$$ at the drop of a hat either). It's just me. I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. The whole "55 gallon drum of whoopa$$" comment was just a poor attempt at being funny. I got that line from a comedian I like, Roy D. Mercer. I'll try to be more civil in the future.

Mike
 
I have no problem with the comments made by peacefuljeffrey. In my opinion some of them have merit and some do not, but they were stated because of conviction and once again in my opinion, not to inflame. There is nothing wrong with that.
 
To Medic and others;
Thanks for the understanding. Medic, I maybe put my foot in my mouth and I apologize if I made comments that could be taken as insinuations that you are given to violence. I really appreciate your effort to straighten things out and I certainly mean no ill will toward you, either.
The ease with which one can speak his mind on the internet makes it very easy for a passionate guy like me to come across as a bastard. I don't mean it. Probably I should do the "count-to-10" thing before I post, and by that I mean I should go ten HOURS before posting my gut reactions... you know, give myself time to simmer down after something gets my goat.
I apologize also if I offended Canadians here. I realize that YOU are not responsible for the state of things; that if it were up to YOU, the laws actually *would* be rational. It takes only a small few rotten apples to ruin the barrel, but unfortunately when we're talking about the ratio of bad apples to good ones, it's about the same as the ratio of legislators and politicians to normal honest people. No wonder we get the laws we have.
Anyway, I wish to avoid getting the reputation for being a flame-thrower here in the forums. This place is GREAT and most people are super polite and friendly. I'm glad I found it. So again, my apologies if anything I said caused offense. And my thanks for taking me in stride. ;)
 
No harm done, nor offense taken.:) It is very admirable to be passionate about these things. Like I said, I agreed with what you were saying, just that saying it might offend some who love their country, but not necessarily their country's laws.

Mike
 
Hey Guys...

I also don't have a problem with some of the things said....

The gun control issue all started with the school shootings is Montreal. The snowball was pushed down the hill...

We just sat back and watched it happen.. Too little too late.. If all the gun owners stuck together from the start, there could have been a chance to stop the BS...We just sat in our lawn chairs with our bottles of beer and let it happen...

That's one of the problems we as Canadian's have,,we watch and see what happens....Then we react when its too late..

Leemah..Keep us up to date with the happenings..

ttyle

Eric...
 
Originally posted by Keith Montgomery
Actually, many states have far more restrictive knife laws than those of Canada.
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Actually most states have far more restrictive knife laws than those of Canada.

Pierre

PS: Firearms, however, is a different issue.
 
If the intent of Parliament was to ban all or most folding knives they would have done so in the legislation. They did not therefore I believe they intended for non-gravity folding knives to be legal in Canada. Here are some points to ponder. Can a Canadian officer (police, customs) who is inspecting your pocket knife do any of the following prior to the "test":
- loosen the pivot screw
- bend the liner lock outward to lessen the detent ball pressure
- disassemble the mechanism and remove springs and other parts
- lash the knife to a long stick and swing the stick to strike an immobile object (so as to accelerate the knife to superhuman speed).
- practice knife flicking to the extent that they are an expert and can flick open any knife that does not have a positive blade lock.
- put it on a special machine that was designed by a Montreal engineering firm that accelerates a pocket knife to 1,383km/h and then stops it within 1.33cm and detects if the blade has opened more than .020mm

Can they damage or destroy the knife as part of the test? This last point is important. Chris Reeve tells me that flicking a Sebenza is considered "abusive" and will shorten the knife's service life. I DO NOT flick any of my knives. If a customs officer was to test a Sebenza they would attempt to flick it and thus cause damage. Let's say I am considering carrying a folding knife.

Does the law require me to test my knife daily to ensure it has not become a gravity knife? If they are using a special machine or a specially trained expert then how can I get regular access to this testing? The point of all of this is to say that the law must be interpreted in a "reasonable" way. ANY CANADIAN MUST BE ABLE TO READ THE LAW AND THEN PICK UP ANY KNIFE AND DETERMINE IF IT IS ILLEGAL OR NOT. Having to develop a special wrist flicking trick is NOT a valid way to determine if a knife is illegal.

Edited to say: I am Canadian, born and raised in Ottawa, the nation's capital. I am in the process of returning to Canada, something I never thought I would do when I left for the U.S. almost a decade ago. When I am restablished in a few months I will be looking at Canadian knife laws and will dedicate some of my resources to effect change that will benefit law-abiding Canadian knife collectors.
 
Peacefuljeffery

As a Mountie, I take great pride in my country, and am a patriot. Patriots are something the U.S. has a great number of, so I am sure you understand what it means. I do not enjoy being insulted by people who do not know anything about me, and do not enjoy Canada being insulted by you or anyone else. Yes, you did step on toes, mine included.
Some of our laws may not seem logical to you, but I am sure some of your own laws don't seem logical, either. Clean up your own mess before telling others how to clean theirs.
The reason I said that it is best to not raise a stink about certain things, is because one should choose his battles carefully. Fighting for your freedoms is a great and honorable task. However, what freedom do you win when your fight ends up costing the very privledge you are fighting for?
Knives are not viewed all that favourably by the public in either of our countries. There are such a small number of knife nuts that there is no chance of the laws being changed. The government would be seen as warming up to criminals by the general public. Yes it sucks. Hard. But that's the way it is, in Canada AND the United States. Do you think knife nuts in California just don't like large blades? Of course not, but can the few people who care about knives change it? Obviously not.
Don't get in a pissing contest about who has the better knife laws. Keith was just trying to point out that things are not as bad here as this thread leads one to believe. Thanks, Keith.
It is true, most folding knives are technically illegal here, because of their ablity to be flicked open. This does not mean you can't buy them here, as others have pointed out. But it will if someone in a "Powers that be" position hears about it and has a bug up their ass about knives, and then we are hooped, because he will have the law on his side, and those knives will be off the shelves. Who wins? Not me. Not the retailer. Not the Canadian knife buying public.
I, as a cop, have discretion when it come to enforcing law. I would not go out of my way to seize these knives from otherwise law abiding citizens. This is the feeling almost all cops have that I know, and I know many. Yes, there are some rinky-dink monkey boys who just want to annoy and inconvenience people, but unfortunately there are no tests out there designed to weed out these guys, so some are cops. In training, we are taught about discretion and when it should be used. Good cops, most cops, use discretion appropriately.
I also know a number of Customs guys, and can say that they are an honest bunch. Perhaps YOU may steal when the chances of being caught are small, but, given the screening customs people go through, they are, in general, trustworthy. But as I said, some rotten apples may slip through. To combat this, Customs offices are subject to stringent security in order to prevent thefts and other crime.
 
Follow up....

I explored the option of exporting the knife back to the shipper and it does not look good.

1) Firstly, I must have a Customs Bonded Courier pick up the knife from Customs for shipping. The knife will be labelled a "Prohibited Weapon". The Officer I talked with implied my chances of having a Courier try to ship a "Prohibited Weapon" would be at best slim or nil.

2) If the knife made it as far as the American Border chances are it would be detained since it is marked Prohibited Weapon.

3) The shipping costs would probably exceed the price of the knife.

Not much of an option.

So...I have filed an appeal and am crossing my fingers.:grumpy:
 
Good Luck :) Living in Canada is a BIATCH sometimes. :grumpy: I wish i could carry my Beretta 92fs and XD40 everyday.


I just got my 710HS today. I bought it brand new from www.knifeworks.com :) I have not had any custom problems with my BMs or Spydercos from Roger. Maybe he can help you get a new one. He is a great guy. Read my review at the General discussion board.
 
Musky Hunter,

Glad to hear your 710HS made it over the line.
I'm going to wait for the results of my appeal. If it does not go my way I will save up some more cash and give Roger a call. I have bought from him before always had great service and "sharp" prices.

Trust me..Canada Customs will not stop me from getting a 710HS even if I have to import it piece by piece.:mad:
 
Buy a new knife... you think all that time and aggrivation you spend on the phone,writing letters, appealing, talking face to face, blood samples, IQ tests, car fax vehicle history reports and whatever else they make people do to get their property back is worth it? Id understand if the knife was like 1,000 but meh, just my opinion man. Sorry if it seems dick of me but IMHO you be the bigger man and tell em that their way of doing things is the most pathetic youve seen. you walk away the bigger man(without your knife) but...................
 
Buy a new knife... you think all that time and aggrivation you spend on the phone,writing letters, appealing, talking face to face, blood samples, IQ tests, car fax vehicle history reports and whatever else they make people do to get their property back is worth it?
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Leemah1 is doing us all a great service. Assuming the knife is not defective, a Customs officer incorrectly applying the law is dangerous to all of us. That same officer could be working a bridge checkpoint the next time you decide to drive up to Canada. How would you like your Sypderco Native or Buck 110 or Leatherman Micra declared a "prohibited weapon" by this person (and you as a non-citizen would be accused of attempting to smuggle said weapon into Canada)? What if the officer is assigned to instruct other officers on how to identify prohibited weapons? What if the Customs officer is sent to work commercial cargo and gets to inspect the incomming inventory of a national chain of knife stores? A successfull appeal of the classification of the knife will hopefully result in some remedial training and save us all a lot of future grief.
 
Leemah1 as an Australian attorney who is seeking to obtain certain BM Axis folders, I have followed this thread with more than the usual amount of interest, if you catch my drift.

This isn't my field, or my jurisdiction obviously, but I would be surprised nevertheless if professional experiences I've had in dealing with other kinds of bureaucracy didn't apply, at least to some extent. SO much depends on who you deal with, in keeping with the bloody arbitraryness overall. There is most often a person, or persons, who can somehow 'open the door', IF you deal with them in a certain way. Even if all the experience beforehand led you to conclude that the situation was hopeless. It can be amazing, frankly. That said however, discovering the identity of such a person can be difficult AND it can all be much more difficult still once things have progressed to a certain point. Then, as Aniketos says, it just simply mightn't be worth the trouble. Personally it would be at that point for me, on my reading, but that is up to you.

The point that Rev. Pete (and whoever earlier - this is a long thread now) makes is valid. There has to be some limit to the testing criteria or just about any folding knife will fall foul of the legislation. You'd think. BUT, the legislature may well want things that way - deter people from importing etc by leaving things vague, without exposing itself to censure by banning the lot outright. Even so, THAT point AND the fact that the exact same model BM can be purchased in Canadian stores are the strongest points in your favour, as I understand the facts. To be used in your discussion with whoever the right person is, in other words. There's a lot in the nuance, also. The customs person you spoke to was reasonable, but firm in his view? Okay bummer but that's that then. Find someone more senior, in there. You might first need to find another person who you can speak to about finding the more senior person (god love it). Then, ask the senior person about your appeal. NEVER the first person you dealt with, who is not going to want to see his/her decision overturned.

That is your only chance, if you feel it is worth all the inevitable runaround you are going to have, in pursuing it.

Good luck, in any event.
 
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