Cannitlers, whittlers...stupid question.

[CL01]

OK, as I've said, I've had slippies since I was a kid but I don't know all the names/types of designs. With that said, I recently bought from a fellow Forumite, the '07 BFs knife (The Canal Street Cannitler in Mastadon). From what I understand, their Cannitler is kind of a Canoe in a Whittler style.

So, my question is this. Are all Whittlers' main blade thick & use both springs? I take it, it's also normal for the 2 shorter blades to be on the opposite side & each have their own spring (That they share with the main one on the other end).

If that's the case, I have to admit that's an awesome design. I thought the Stockman's a great design, but think I like the Whittler better.

Also, as an aside, does anyone here actually use/carry their '07 BladeForum knife? I was fortunate enough to get in on the '08 knife, have voted on the '09 & expect to get that. I also just recently picked up the '07 knife (Thank you, "Thomason"!).

Thank you in advance for all your input.

 

[Capt. Carl]

So, my question is this. Are all Whittlers' main blade thick & use both springs? I take it, it's also normal for the 2 shorter blades to be on the opposite side & each have their own spring (That they share with the main one on the other end).

I have an old Queen whittler and this is the case. It is a nice design, I agree.

 

[KnifeHead]

Whittlers were commonly made with parallel back springs without center liners(http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6424778&postcount=1211), parallel springs WITH cut liners and catch bits like the cannittler and socalled split back springs with tapered cut liners(http://boseknives.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=432). Typically the two smaller blades are equal in thickness and each have their own spring of equal thickness. The combined thickness of both springs equal the thickess of the master blade at the opposite end.

If that isn't confusing enough, there is also a lockback whittler.(http://boseknives.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2419) They are all very useful and interesting designs.

I carried and used my 07 forum knife for a while but there are others that I like to carry and use more than that knife. It's a great knife though...now you are making me want to get it out and carry it again. THANKS!

 

[CL01]

Thank you for the info. I still like Trappers & various variants of Jacks, but this Cannitler (&, I'm sure, the Whittler) are pretty neat.

 

[d.parker]

I was giving out my opinions that were not factual. My apoligies...

 

[yablanowitz]

Maybe this will help (and maybe not )

The top knife is a Parker Doc's Whittling Knife with parallel, untapered springs. The middle knife is a Hen and Rooster whittler with tapered springs. Both of these have a cut liner, i.e. there is a liner between the blades but not between the springs. The bottom knife is a Case splitback whittler where the liner extends between the springs.

 

[d.parker]

Maybe this will help (and maybe not )

The top knife is a Parker Doc's Whittling Knife with parallel, untapered springs. The middle knife is a Hen and Rooster whittler with tapered springs. Both of these have a cut liner, i.e. there is a liner between the blades but not between the springs. The bottom knife is a Case splitback whittler where the liner extends between the springs.

Thanks for the photo of the parallel same thickness springs, but I still don't understand the cut liner. I think I see a catch bit on the top knife ? And I think I see a catch bit on the tapered spring knife ? I understand the tapered scale on the bottom knife in the pic between the springs, I think ? The top whittler knife in the pic isn't very common and kind of a cheap way of building a knife and I had completely forgotten about it's application, it's my Ole age. I think there are more whittler spring arrangements than the 3 pictured. I'll fore go any further information on whittlers, and let the experts explain further. As I stated Hell I'm confused.

 

[CL01]

Wow, I guess this wasn't a stupid question! All I know is I'm sure learning something, thank you for the pics & info.

I think by "cut liner", he means it's there to separate the blades, but it's "cut" at the bottom, so it's doesn't separate the springs, is that correct?

 

[yablanowitz]

The tip of the middle liner is just visible on the top knife, it only sticks out about a sixteenth of an inch. The part that sticks out also wraps around the end of the springs, which is what I believe is the "catch bit" referred to above.

Here is a crappy shot in bad light picture of the inside of the same knives so you can see how the liners are cut.

 

[mp510]

Also, as an aside, does anyone here actually use/carry their '07 BladeForum knife?

I have used it a couple of times. It's my dress knife, so to speak, so when it is used it is usually onlyfor 'special occasions' and is babied then.

 

[KnifeHead]

Yablanowitz...those images really helped point out the difference between the different spring configs. You can now see how a catch bit simply is a spacer only between the small blades and a cut liner seperates both the springs and the blades. Master blade's in the center...center liner's in the center..."cut liner" refers to the fact that there has to be a cutout in the center liner for the master blade to fit into the trough.

When you see one that has been perfectly made from scratch by hand, you really begin to appreciate how it is that all that stuff is made to work like many "knife people" expect them to: No blade rubs, flush springs in all positions, points centered, hand rubbed blades, smooth blade rotation, snappy walk n talk, perfect fit and finish, etc.

 

[yablanowitz]

Thank you for correcting my terminology goofs!

I learned something too.

 

[Ice Tigre]

Thanks from me too... I've looked at a lot of whittlers, but never noticed the liner/lack of liner differences before.

G.

 

[d.parker]

Another question please, in folding knives is the terminology liners a modern term for what was once called scales ? A cut liner or scale which ever, thats tapered can't be a liner or scale . To me a center liner or scale, can be cut out to back spring depth but has to be pinned at both ends of the knife frame to be a center liner or scale, and will not work on a whittler. On a split back whittler the center spring divider is tapered, starting at a dimension that is different on different whittler patterns, and usually tapers to about .010". The reason I called this a tapered divider and not a liner or scale is because it is the same depth as the back springs it is pinned on the 2 blade end and held by friction on the main blade end they are not pinned, because it's impossible for it to work if pinned. Also if you get the tapered divider less than .010" on the friction end, it's been my experience that after the knife is used or worked awhile the divider will work up through the back springs on the friction held end and cut you. I've had it happen.. Well I hope my thoughts help a little to the discussion on whittlers. Like I have stated Hell I'm probably still confused...

 

[KnifeHead]

"Scales" seems to be a term that is used both for the handles of folders and fixed blades but I think it's just refering to the handle material. I believe "liners" is an appropriate term for that material between or ajacent to blades and springs as long as 2 pins are holding them in place, unlike catch bits that are held in place by a pivot pin. The center spring pin and the small blades pivot pin are holding the liners in place(or should be) and go all the way thru the knife.

 

[d.parker]

"Scales" seems to be a term that is used both for the handles of folders and fixed blades but I think it's just refering to the handle material. I believe "liners" is an appropriate term for that material between or ajacent to blades and springs as long as 2 pins are holding them in place, unlike catch bits that are held in place by a pivot pin. The center spring pin and the small blades pivot pin are holding the liners in place(or should be) and go all the way thru the knife.

You are 100% correct on the center pin holding the center of the tapered divider, but the opposite end of the tapered divider from the pivot held end is held by friction is it not ? May I ask have you ever seen a tapered divider or liner as you refer to, work up thru the springs on the friction held end and cut the palm of your hand ? I have and seen it on more than one occasion..

I think if you read back thru the history of back spring knives you will find liners as called today were originally called scales, and the knives handles were called scale covers, and sheath knives handles were called just that handles or Hafts...

Catch bits are held by the pivot, they catch the springs so they are called catch bits, they are not a cut liner or scale, Am I correct in that statement?

 

[ea42]

While we're on the subject (this is VERY interesting!), what prevents the catch bit (especially the one on the Hen and Rooster), from pivoting along with the blades? For instance, would there be movement if both secondaries were opened to 90 degrees? Or is there enough tension against the springs to hold it stationary?

Eric

 

[d.parker]

ea42, A photo would be helpful, with that said a catch bit lays on the bottom of the back springs or spring in different pattern configurations, with the blade or blades tangs on either side of the catch bit with a pivot pin thru all 3 pieces. The catch bit, catches the very end of the back springs or spring, with a extension part of the catch bit, running perpendicular to the back springs or spring. Buy this extension catching on the spring or springs end and the catch bit laying on the bottom of the spring or springs and the pivot pin going thru catch bit, it can not rotate in any blade or blades position.. the extension on the catch bit is usually flush with the bolster or frame of the knife...

 

[CL01]

I guess this is another instance where that ole statement, "There are no stupid question" ring true, huh?

The movement, tolerances needed, etc. definitely shows why a handmade or custom slip-joint is usually more expensive. It kind of reminds me of why a very good revolver costs as much as they do. While the technology isn't new, the tolerances & need for more exacting machining makes it more difficult to make. Or so it seems, anyways.

Great answers & additional questions, that's for sure.

 

[d.parker]

CL01, A man told me one time Questions cost 1.00$ Answers cost 2.00$ Correct Answers cost 5.00$. There are not any stupid questions, a lot of questionable answers.
so stay tuned, I don't know how much you owe at this point...