Can't Find Steel

One thing that many new smiths don;t understand is metallurgy. If a high carbon steel is improperly heat treated, all that happens is the eutectiod forms ... and little else. This is basically 1084 steel. If that is all you are going to end up with, why not start with 1084.

Steels with high carbon need a sufficient soak time to put the carbon ( and any alloying) into solution. Many also need a fast quenchant than most back yard oils used by beginners. These two things require a HT oven and a fast oil like Parks #50 to do them justice.

If you aren't set up for processing these steels, the choices are :
1) send it out to a professional HT provider
2) take it to another smith with the experience and equipment
3) use a steel like 5160, 80CrV2, or 1084 and do your own simple HT.
 
As a knife maker, it's our job to educate our customers on the steels we use. When I tell people about 80crv2, I tell them it's in the L2 spec, and most people have heard of L6. I explain in basic terms the alloying and how it gives them what they want.
 
So, out of the 3 "backyard heat treat" steels being 5160, 80crV2 and 1084, which one is best for what purpose? In what case would you use one over the other?
 
E.Carlson said:
So, out of the 3 "backyard heat treat" steels being 5160, 80crV2 and 1084, which one is best for what purpose? In what case would you use one over the other?
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See http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=1084,5160,80CrV2&ni=348,838,2326

Start with 1084. Add chrome, vanadium, maybe a pinch of moly and nickel - now you have 80CrV2. Those added elements increase impact strength (toughness) abrasion resistance, and hardenability.

Start over with 1084. Take away some carbon (reduces hardenability or max hardness) but add chrome and manganese - now you have 5160. Those added elements increase impact strength and hardenability.
 
Lack of customer knowledge is not reason for inferior product. I would use either 1084 the the 1080+ from alpha supply "I think it's 80crv" and just explain it's like 1095 but tougher and designed for a more bushcraft style of making.
 
I only use 1095 because I can buy it in .25" from work for $1.50 a square foot and it's right next to the laser already. :D If I could get 80CRV2 for that I'd use it for almost everything.
 
Nobody mentioned 8670?

Hard to beat 80crv2 though. Certainly a "premium" of backyard heat treat steels. Fairly simple and straightforward to heat treat at home and even simpler for pro's. Gets stupid hard grinds nice and thin.

Stacy, I think people are drawn to 1095 because it is a challenge and it seems like a mystical carbon steel - when i first started a few years ago i couldn't wait to use and heat treat 1095 because it seemed like the pinnacle of carbon steel to a newbie. Plus there are a billion pictures of Hamons that make it even more attractive.
 
magicpanther said:
I never heard of W-2 or 80CrV before and i'm worried my customers wouldn't have either, and be unsure if it's quality steel.
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In my opinion, anyone who likes handmade knives and has not heard of W2, has been living under a rock somewhere... or just got into it.
Give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.
As for the rest... well, why not be a trendsetter if you perceive a lack of steel knowledge in the bushcraft community? That could be your edge right there. Just super nerd out about steel and testing and HT in your posts and people will take heed.
 
I really like 80crv2... Also talked me into a few pieces of it, and I hadnt used it until recently. Once finished, it makes a superb knife, and will last a long time.
 
Bushcrafters LOVE O1, and scandi grind. Just cause it's popular don't mean it's the best. There is lots of mis-information on some of the bush craft forums. Like what chuck mentioned. ^ Inform your market on why or how 80crv2, or 1075, or 5160, or W2 or O1,or...is better then 1095. 3V would be cool, might want a bigger grinder though.
 
Okay thank you for your input everyone i will try out 80CrV and see how it is. Is it a good steel for thin short blades as well? Like really thin 1/16"?

Meanwhile i'm making my first knife to see if i even like making them "pretty sure i will". Here's what i got done so far.



I found a piece of leaf spring scrap and cleaned it up a little. It's a little over 1/4" thick, and it appears it came off a General Motors car so hopefully it's decent steel. Then put my design on it. I didn't really base this design off anything and now looking at it and feeling it, it seems the handle might be to small but we'll see.









Then i started to profile it, i love the way it came out. I'm just having some trouble cutting my general shape out as you can see on the handle, what tool do you guys use?











Also unfortunately my sander isn't capable of beveling the knife so i'll need to get a new one before i finish. I did a test piece on another piece of steel and it looked liked the machete from the most recent Rambo film.
 
Could you not buy a narrower piece of material and have someone bend it for you locally? Even a weld shop could heat a piece of 1/4" thick material and hammer it to the angle you need for a Kukri. I say 1/4" because you're going to get some thinning on the spine when it's bent.
 
Why can't your belt sander do edge bevels. As a buddy once said "don't let your tools stand in the way of progress"
 
Winegums said:
Could you not buy a narrower piece of material and have someone bend it for you locally? Even a weld shop could heat a piece of 1/4" thick material and hammer it to the angle you need for a Kukri. I say 1/4" because you're going to get some thinning on the spine when it's bent.
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I was already planning on bending it, i wanted the belly of the Kukri to be 2".
 
JTknives said:
Why can't your belt sander do edge bevels. As a buddy once said "don't let your tools stand in the way of progress"
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It's just poorly designed for blade making.

See those steps on either side, that makes it near imposible to make bevels.

 
I started grinding knives over 20 years ago and the first knife I ground was on a standard handheld wood sander. I clamped it upside down in a vice and tracked the belt over to one side and started grinding. My knives have come along way sence then. It's funny how your mind plays tricks on you. I remember thoes knives being awesome, but then I found some pictures and wow. But like I tell everyone that gets into this "you have to start somewhere".

Can you track the belt left or right to bring the edge of the belt to the edge of the platten?
 
On the topic of 1095, I suspect that the reason that many folks, both manufacturers and individuals alike , use it is because it is cheap, readily available and familiar. I suspect that if you asked some of the knife makers on here, they would tell you that a LOT of the production blades made from 1095 that are being offered today appear to be heat treated in a manner that leaves a fair amount of performance on the table. Same deal with some 5160 blades that are tempered to like 54 Rc. I have seen a shop tour video of a well known specialty manufacturer where the company has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on CNC equipment, yet, according to the video, their heat treatment setup for 1095 is allegedly one guy "eyeballing" the color of the steel in a forge. I don't know if that was just for show, but there you have it. :confused:
 
1084 and lower would likely be a better choice. 5160 80crv2 w2... all good choices. Chances are that if a buyer is savvy enough to understand what 1095 is, he may also understand the negatives of buying such a large blade made of that steel. That being said, if you're sending it out to a reputable heat treat you may be fine. It's a ridiculously hard steel and an absolute beast to temper down properly without adequate experience, skill, and tools. If known steel is a primary concern, and you're sending it out for heat treat, why not go with a popular alloy? They won't rust nearly as easy and a consumer looking for an actual "tool" would appreciate how much less maintenance is needed for a good stainless. 1095 is gonna rust if taken camping and not oiled often. If it rains and the kukri gets wet, you're gonna have an unhappy customer. Not because 1095 isn't good, but because his/her new tool has rusted so easily.

Just another opinion. Also, 1/4" is more than enough steel for a really great chopper.
 
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