Canvas Micarta

dirtvictim said:
I find it interesting that after all these years some knifemakers still use micarta as a generic term for composite material used in thermosetting plastics. Micarta is a brand name not the material itself you all must know this. It is too generic and doesn't cover other known TP or phenolic composites that are used like fiberglass or carbon that for no reason get categorized differently. Some say that carbon composite isn't micarta, that is not true micarta makes many composites and carbon too. Let's move away from the generic term micarta please. Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? Fiberglass composite is G-10, carbon composite is carbon fiber, and paper, linen and canvas composites are referred to as micarta. Yes, there is only one brand of Micarta. But you're being a bit picky on that one, and you're just wrong on fiberglass and carbon, as far as what they are commonly referred to as. No one calls carbon composite or fiberglass composite "micarta" .
 
Laredian said:
I think i get your point in general, but still...in practical terms, even though the definition might not be as accurate or precise as you'd like, micarta is used by makers and suppliers to describe a specific material that has to have certain characteristics....otherwise people won't buy it. It's the reason I will never buy micarta again from the supplier I got the micarta for the knife I posted above.

My point is that, many people have seen the beautiful sculpted micarta handles that for example nick wheeler has made for some of his knives in his famous wheeler/paranee project. Or look at old Bob Loveless knives that have handles that are described as micarta (linen or canvas).
If I now have a collector that wants a knife with a micarta handle and I present him with something that does not remotely resemble (for the most part...in general structure and looks) the handles that famous and established makers have made in the past, he won't be satisfied with it.

Also I have never seen anyone, maker or supplier, call G10 or Carbon Fiber as Micarta. Again those are all materials that have been used by great makers and are therefore very much distinguishable from each other simply by how they look.

On the matter of professionalism I think that we just have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
I feel you get me here.
I guess for some makers it comes down to simplicity, its easier to be lazy and use a generic term instead of a take the time to use the correct terms. The problem for me is perception, when I see a makers use terms loosely I tend to not look at buying from them not to say I won't I just critique them even more.
The only analogy that I can see that may actually hit home here is this:
I am a maker and my new blade uses 154cm hitachi steel but my other blades I use ats-34 crucible industries steel.
These two steels are virtually identical but made by two different companies so you wouldn't identify each with another's company name as I did here, so to use micarta as a generic term to describe phenolic resin materials just doesn't make sense. For me, I am more impressed when a maker uses proper terminology not mainstream hype. Use the material makers terminology, how hard is that?
Thanks for reading my rant.
 
Kevin McGovern said:
What are you talking about? Fiberglass composite is G-10, carbon composite is carbon fiber, and paper, linen and canvas composites are referred to as micarta. Yes, there is only one brand of Micarta. But you're being a bit picky on that one, and you're just wrong on fiberglass and carbon, as far as what they are commonly referred to as. No one calls carbon composite or fiberglass composite "micarta" .
Click to expand...
I was being factious, perhaps you missed that, if you can call one product from micarta "micarta" then you can call them all "micarta" that's the problem here.
Linen-paper-canvas-carbon-glass and many others are all impregnated phenolic resins of one type or another made by micarta but not one of them is actually "micarta", that is a brand name of norplex-micarta and it was never used by the company to describe their products composites so why adopt the term as partially encompassing? Before you know it makers will just say micarta and you will have to guess the substrate. Linen phenolic, canvas phenolic etc. those are the proper terms use them. Like I said be professional.
 
dirtvictim said:
I feel you get me here.
I guess for some makers it comes down to simplicity, its easier to be lazy and use a generic term instead of a take the time to use the correct terms. The problem for me is perception, when I see a makers use terms loosely I tend to not look at buying from them not to say I won't I just critique them even more.
The only analogy that I can see that may actually hit home here is this:
I am a maker and my new blade uses 154cm hitachi steel but my other blades I use ats-34 crucible industries steel.
These two steels are virtually identical but made by two different companies so you wouldn't identify each with another's company name as I did here, so to use micarta as a generic term to describe phenolic resin materials just doesn't make sense. For me, I am more impressed when a maker uses proper terminology not mainstream hype. Use the material makers terminology, how hard is that?
Thanks for reading my rant.
Click to expand...

I would not call that laziness. I do agree that in industrial production of materials you need to have very clear and precise definitions of materials.

Still the deciding factor in all this is still the workmanship. The care and love of detail a maker puts into his blade. I mean would you look at the work of the top makers working today in any different way regarding quality and performance, if they marketed one of their knives with the description: "the handle material is linen micarta"?
 
Laredian said:
I would not call that laziness. I do agree that in industrial production of materials you need to have very clear and precise definitions of materials.

Still the deciding factor in all this is still the workmanship. The care and love of detail a maker puts into his blade. I mean would you look at the work of the top makers working today in any different way regarding quality and performance, if they marketed one of their knives with the description: "the handle material is linen micarta"?
Click to expand...
That was my point here, when I see the name micarta used improperly it makes me question the makers motives of brand recognition to sell their product.
I'm sure norplex-micarta doesn't care because it's free advertising.
It disappoints me to see great makers misuse the brand name micarta when to me it appears unprofessional.
Not sure who decided that only three phenolic materials (linen-canvas-paper) from micarta can be called micarta but that's just plain dumb.
I used micarta brand linen phenolic in Pool cue repairs for years in the 90's and never once did that industry refer to it as linen micarta. I assume and hope they still don't but haven't done cue work for a long time.
The truth once known cannot be unknown.
 
There is a difference between using terminology incorrectly in an effort to deceive your customers, and using terminology incorrectly because a large portion of your potential customer base does as well. It may be difficult to determine which is the case with any individual builder, but I may give the benefit of doubt in the event that it’s the latter.
 
I am happy to know at least some knifemakers are stalwarts against trademark generification.
Good luck policing popular culture and language.
I am going to take an asprin, wipe with a kleenex then zipper it.
Perhaps jello for desert. I dunno...
 
Astronaut FX said:
There is a difference between using terminology incorrectly in an effort to deceive your customers, and using terminology incorrectly because a large portion of your potential customer base does as well. It may be difficult to determine which is the case with any individual builder, but I may give the benefit of doubt in the event that it’s the latter.
Click to expand...
The fault would lie with the builders, they control the narrative lie and what is fed to the consumers. The consumers in general don't know that micarta is a brand and not a given product because the builders are not educating them.
I know it's a pipe dream to believe the builders will concede and stop misusing the name but it's my dream dang it.
I had a dream that one day all people would stop using the name micarta incorrectly. Then I woke up. LOL
 
Lieblad said:
I am happy to know at least some knifemakers are stalwarts against trademark generification.
Good luck policing popular culture and language.
I am going to take an asprin, wipe with a kleenex then zipper it.
Perhaps jello for desert. I dunno...
Click to expand...
Always wipe front to back. Wait what? Did you bring enough jello for everyone?
 
I have a sheet of canvas OD green Norplex Micarta I bought from Angus-Campbell and some canvas OD green phenolic I bought from Masecraft.

If you could tell the difference between them in any way, I would respect the point to a greater degree. If I list a knife made with the Masecraft material and describe the handle as "OD green linen phenolic from Masecraft" some people will ask what that is, because it looks like micarta? Some will just pass on by and buy a knife advertised as "OD green micarta" instead regardless of who made it. A few will know exactly what I'm talking about and think I'm a pedantic jackass they don't want to deal with.

So I'll just call it micarta with a little "m." My customers can rest assured that if I call it "micarta" it's of a quality I consider equivalent to Norplex.
 
kuraki said:
I have a sheet of canvas OD green Norplex Micarta I bought from Angus-Campbell and some canvas OD green phenolic I bought from Masecraft.

If you could tell the difference between them in any way, I would respect the point to a greater degree. Some will just pass on by and buy a knife advertised as "OD green micarta" instead regardless of who made it. A few will know exactly what I'm talking about and think I'm a pedantic jackass they don't want to deal with.

So I'll just call it micarta with a little "m." Norplex.
Click to expand...
You just made the whole point right there, micarta is a brand not a product. What's the old saying? Fake it till you make it. It's far worse to call a product micarta that isn't that's for sure and add insult to injury by justifying it because the consumer won't understand. It doesn't look like micarta it looks like linen phenolic. Perpetuating the problem doesn't help. Don't be that guy, it's not hard to educate consumers.
 
Last edited:
dirtvictim said:
You just made the whole point right there, micarta is a brand not a product. What's the old saying? Fake it till you make it. It's far worse to call a product micarta that isn't that's for sure and add insult to injury by justifying it because the consumer won't understand. It doesn't look like micarta it looks like linen phenolic. Perpetuating the problem doesn't help. Don't be that guy, it's not hard to educate consumers.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree on that one.

To me you make it sound like kuraki would cheat his customers, which I do not think is the case. Lets take my original example from my first post: I made a knife and tried out canvas micarta from a reputable supplier for the handle scales. As I have already said, the material I got looked terrible on the finished knife. If I had not made that knife for myself as an experiment but for a customer, I would have never let the knife go because the handle material did not have the quality I thought it would have. And I think that every maker here would think similarly on this.

I think you are creating a problem where there is none.
 
Laredian said:
I have to disagree on that one.

To me you make it sound like kuraki would cheat his customers, which I do not think is the case. Lets take my original example from my first post: I made a knife and tried out canvas micarta from a reputable supplier for the handle scales. As I have already said, the material I got looked terrible on the finished knife. If I had not made that knife for myself as an experiment but for a customer, I would have never let the knife go because the handle material did not have the quality I thought it would have. And I think that every maker here would think similarly on this.

I think you are creating a problem where there is none.
Click to expand...
How can you disagree with facts? It's not me saying anyone would cheat their customers but it is a way of cheating that is for certain. Using name recognition as a way to sell a product, that is cheating. No different than buying ats34 and putting 154cm on your blades.
There is a huge problem unfolding right here and you cannot deny it. I took a little time looking up micarta products online and so many use the brand name in place of the actual product its staggering.
Now I'm even more convinced that many are using substitutes of micarta for personal gains because of the name. This is bigger than watergate that is for certain. Micartagate.
Do not admit in an open forum you use another product and call it micarta, this so much proves my point it's beyond crazy that some cannot see it.
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" (Sir Walter Scott, 1808).
It's a good thing users can go back and delete mistaken statements. Please do so if you know who your are, for your own sake use caution prior to posting.
 
Last edited:
dirtvictim said:
How can you disagree with facts? It's not me saying anyone would cheat their customers but it is a way of cheating that is for certain. Using name recognition as a way to sell a product, that is cheating. No different than buying ats34 and putting 154cm on your blades.
There is a huge problem unfolding right here and you cannot deny it. I took a little time looking up micarta products online and so many use the brand name in place of the actual product its staggering.
Now I'm even more convinced that many are using substitutes of micarta for personal gains because of the name. This is bigger than watergate that is for certain. Micartagate.
Do not admit in an open forum you use another product and call it micarta, this so much proves my point it's beyond crazy that some cannot see it.
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" (Sir Walter Scott, 1808).
It's a good thing users can go back and delete mistaken statements. Please do so if you know who your are, for your own sake use caution prior to posting.
Click to expand...

I tried my best to keep this conversation going in a respectful civil way, but did you just accuse me of lying? Neither is it your place to tell me I should delete or correct anything I have written nor did I write anything that was false or misleading.

Now if we are at the point where you are just trolling me and I did not get it, I think a moderator should chime in and close the thread since there are obviously no more sincere contributions to my initial post and questions I had asked.
 
On the subject of name recognition I notice you don’t use your name when posting online but an anonymous handle.
I feel like you’re thinking way too much into this and I’m guessing you have a problem trusting people.
It reminds me of a buffalo/bison argument two of my buddies had at work. Are they buffalo if they’re in North America? No, they’re not. But if you asked 100 people to identify a picture of a buffalo and held up a picture of a bison, I bet 90% would call it a buffalo.
People recognize what micarta is so I call it micarta when I use it on a knife.
It’s widely accepted in the knife community.
 
Laredian said:
I tried my best to keep this conversation going in a respectful civil way, but did you just accuse me of lying? Neither is it your place to tell me I should delete or correct anything I have written nor did I write anything that was false or misleading.

Now if we are at the point where you are just trolling me and I did not get it, I think a moderator should chime in and close the thread since there are obviously no more sincere contributions to my initial post and questions I had asked.
Click to expand...
No that was not meant for you, I was trying to be polite and not call anyone out. I was trying to help out someone that misspoke, it wasn't you. You have been very productive here.
 
Laredian said:
I have never used this particular material before.
Click to expand...
I've been thinking about your topic ... and how can I just guess because you do not reveal it
source ... like eg https://www.dictum.com/en/hybrid-ma...thickness-3-mm-831417?ftr=_35_42_97_3_12_12__
it seems to me that it's about 3mm scales, in many is your fault in the choice materials and finishes because no one fits the characteristics
which material it has,so nothing new for the first time is gaining experience.
and I like others do not see anything wrong with the complete work and knife :thumbsup:
 
chumaman said:
I've been thinking about your topic ... and how can I just guess because you do not reveal it
source ... like eg https://www.dictum.com/en/hybrid-ma...thickness-3-mm-831417?ftr=_35_42_97_3_12_12__
it seems to me that it's about 3mm scales, in many is your fault in the choice materials and finishes because no one fits the characteristics
which material it has,so nothing new for the first time is gaining experience.
and I like others do not see anything wrong with the complete work and knife :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the comment on the knife itself. I thought it was inapropriate to name the site I got it from so I did not. I have ordered from the site you linked, but not the micarta I have used on this knife, it was a different supplier. The material was 9mm thick so I had to grind a good bit away, I would not even know how to make decent handle scales with 3mm thick material.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top