Carbiners-I am not convinced. Why carry them?

[Don Rearic]

What DVD was this in?

It was in the "Survival Kits" video which, IIRC, is Vol. III of the Woodsmaster Series.

Looks more effective than a slingshot shooting BBs, anyway.

At short distances, yeah it would be. As far as shooting BBs in slingshots, we have to get you right with the Catapult Gawds, no lead or steel balls grace my slingshot under .45 caliber baby!

 

[shecky]

Ron Hood showed it in one of his excellent DVDs, have you tried it before you shit on the idea?

Some ideas just beg to be shat upon.

 

[Don Rearic]

Some ideas just beg to be shat upon.

Yeah, only thing is, a lot of the time it is because someone is shitting on a personality and using this as camouflage. It works, you don't like it? Oh well.

 

[shecky]

I cast no aspersions on Ron Hood. I like his site/forums, and would love to have an Atax, as gimmicky as it is.

But the carabiner slingbow idea strikes me as a goofy MacGyverism. The scenario that you're out in the bush, with rubber bands, arrows, a carabiner, and no other means to make a reasonable slingshot/bow seems funny. He wins lots of points for creativity.

 

[DaleW]

Like others, I use a small one for hanging bear bags using the "PCT method" and for securing gear that might bounce out on the trail. I use light aluminum or plastic ones made by Black Diamond-- definately NOT for load bearing/climbing. I wouldn't want the weight, bulk, and cost of true climbing models.

Some people like them for the macho look I guess.

 

[Don Rearic]

I cast no aspersions on Ron Hood. I like his site/forums, and would love to have an Atax, as gimmicky as it is.

Hmm, I will reserve judgment on some things. The Atax, I think, is an interesting tool. I don't know if it is for me or not...but he gets an "A" for effort.

But the carabiner slingbow idea strikes me as a goofy MacGyverism.

That's rather intuitive as I read in one of Ron Hood's bios that he was a technical consultant for the show or some number of episodes, don't remember which.

I never really liked MacGyver personally, I'm sick of stupid anti-gun propaganda. A guy that is making an argument that a discriminate weapon, a firearm, is horrible but goes around making indiscriminate weapons, fragmentary and incendiary explosive devices are OK and much preferred is just mindless BS to me.

The scenario that you're out in the bush, with rubber bands, arrows, a carabiner, and no other means to make a reasonable slingshot/bow seems funny. He wins lots of points for creativity.

Who says you have the arrows? You didn't watch the video he made and you didn't hear his comments so you feel free to shit on something you know very little about. He said that you could use arrows or you could make them out of willow branches, etc. In my experience, you can sometimes find arrows, they're rather easy to spot unless you just shot one and you are trying to find it and then luck tends towards it being lost forever. ( )

He has other uses for surgical tubing and suggested inclusion of same in a survival kit.

What is a "reasonable" bow or slingshot improvised in the field? This thing, what he calls the "Delbo[w] Pocket Bow" would kill small game.

Here is a truth for you to ponder, you are free to dismiss it if you like, OK? This is from personal experience.

This has to do with mechanics, martial arts, music and a host of other things, it's like one of life's lessons...

What the Instructor can do is interesting, sometimes awe-inspiring and legendary. Can he teach it? Also, it's not what the Instructor can do at the end of the seminar or class, but what YOU can do.

Most people in this forum would be hard-pressed to make a working bow and arrow that when it FUNCTIONS would be demonstrably better than this little carabiner/bow-thingamabob.

Myself included. It would also be a lengthy process to make something that would actually, real world - no BSing - function better than this totally from scratch in the field.

I would bet money that there are less than a dozen guys that frequent this forum who could do it. That's not said to start a fight, I just bet that it what it would boil down to if we were all gathered in a field of suitable trees and other materials to make bows and arrows.

Not just make a working bow and arrow but one that could actually work better than this little contraption. Arrows for this thing would be relatively easy to make, bows and arrows? Not so easy. If anyone answers, "Oh yes it is!" It might be for you. Not for everyone.

A "reasonable" slingshot improvised in the field would be better made from flat (band) latex instead of surgical tubing/latex.

 

[shecky]

Who says you have the arrows?

This picture does.

And if you didn't have arrows, what difference would the carabiner make? What if you had the carabiner, arrows, and no rubber bands?

And if you didn't have arrows, the carabiner would make a very poor slingshot. All those trees in the background could certainly provide some kind of building material, no?

Having rubber bands (not to mention arrows) accounts for 98% of the most critical parts of a slingshot/bow. But the fact that Hood used a carabiner (or a toothbrush or bicycle seat or coke bottle, however you want to play this game...) to fling arrows is a gimmick. The idea that one would have only rubber bands at one's disposal in order to improvise a slingshot/bow is like carrying some shotgun shells so you can improvise a firearm.

 

[Don Rearic]

This picture does.

That's not one of Ron Hood's pictures, we're talking about an idea not necessarily someone else's interpretation of it, just Hood's. He had an arrow in the DVD as well, but there was accompanying narrative along with it.

All of the rest of your post is simply argumentative, if you don't like it, don't do it. But for the life of me, I don't understand why people waste their time pissing on things like this. I think Tom Brown's books are ass but I generally don't go into Tom Brown or "Tracker Knife" threads and piss on his ideas. Perhaps you should consider the same.

 

[vector001]

This picture does.

And if you didn't have arrows, what difference would the carabiner make? What if you had the carabiner, arrows, and no rubber bands?

And if you didn't have arrows, the carabiner would make a very poor slingshot. All those trees in the background could certainly provide some kind of building material, no?

Having rubber bands (not to mention arrows) accounts for 98% of the most critical parts of a slingshot/bow. But the fact that Hood used a carabiner (or a toothbrush or bicycle seat or coke bottle, however you want to play this game...) to fling arrows is a gimmick. The idea that one would have only rubber bands at one's disposal in order to improvise a slingshot/bow is like carrying some shotgun shells so you can improvise a firearm.

if you were familiar with ron hood, you would realize, brother, that everything he carries has AT LEAST three uses - this is simply ONE of the uses of a piece of gear he has chosen in the past to equip himself with, in his Way.

surgical tubing he also uses, besides a slingshot, and a Delbow catapult, as a straw, and an improvised bellows, when you blow through it to forge a steel implement in the field, such as a hawk or knife, which he and i have both done.

have you...? it's fun - and you can see examples of it in several places, including but not limited to the HoodsWoods videos, "Survival Camping" and their excellent video "Knifemaking" - which covers making forges and excellent knives and implements, available at survival.com.

ron hood is a man of honor who i have known for ten years and shared dirt time with.

everything with three uses remember please ...a delbow is just an application.

no need to be hostile.

your bud,

vec

 

[Don Rearic]

I have several of his DVDs. I wish I had them a long time ago, in a time before they were even available to be honest! There are a few cool things like this and a lot of much more important things that could have saved me a lot of unproductive and wasted time trying to figure out.

Anyone that has ever hunted the prolific cottontail rabbit will know, for a fact, that you can almost terrify them to death. Something like this will kill them with boring regularity.

 

[sodak]

Locking Carabiners make an excellent substitute for brass knuckles. That's one good reason, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Don Rearic]

Locking Carabiners make an excellent substitute for brass knuckles. That's one good reason, as far as I'm concerned.

You need to read the first page of the thread! Hahahaha!

The most I have used one for is, like some of you, to hoist food up in a tree. Is it a necessity for that? NO. But it is very handy. Thanks to Mr. Hood, I have a couple more uses for them although the emergency use for descent is hairy. I have also used them to lower a framed pack and a non-frame pack (large ALICE) down some treacherous mountainsides in Virginia instead of trying to drag them, etc.

Also, man, I'm not into all of that Alpinism trip, these things are light, if you think these things are heavy, you either need to start lifting some weights or get lighter carabiners.

 

[shecky]

That's not one of Ron Hood's pictures, we're talking about an idea not necessarily someone else's interpretation of it, just Hood's. He had an arrow in the DVD as well, but there was accompanying narrative along with it.

OK. If he didn't have an arrow, wouldn't he need to fabricate one? It seems anyone capable of making a decent arrow would have the wherewithal to also fabricate a reasonable bow. And would most likely not use a carabiner to fling arrows. Unless, of course, one wants to make a point.

All of the rest of your post is simply argumentative, if you don't like it, don't do it. But for the life of me, I don't understand why people waste their time pissing on things like this. I think Tom Brown's books are ass but I generally don't go into Tom Brown or "Tracker Knife" threads and piss on his ideas. Perhaps you should consider the same.

My post is no more argumentative than yours.

Furthermore, I didn't go into a "Ron Hood" thread. I went into a carabiner thread, and found an outlandish application for a carabiner, which turned out to be Ron Hood's. Attacking a man's idea is not the same as attacking the man himself.

ron hood is a man of honor who i have known for ten years and shared dirt time with.

everything with three uses remember please ...a delbow is just an application.

no need to be hostile.

your bud,

vec

Who has questioned his honor? Or has been hostile?

Why are you and Don Rearic so eager to defend the honor of a man nobody has attacked?

 

[kgd]

Okay - I admit I have a ton of carbiners and I am not a climber nor would I easily give the impression that I was one. Here are some of my uses:

1) keychain - they are awesome for this. You can put relevent keys together on rings and slip on/off bunches of keys suitable to your purpose - e.g. lend out the truck - just slip the truck keys off while leaving my work keys together with everything else. Also great for holding a small SAK and mag-light with the keys. Need to use that light to get your key in the lock - it works much better when you can slip the light off and light the way.

2) I put them on the guard rails of my truck. My guard rails have these sliding/adjustable rings for tie downs. However, the dweeb who designed them made the hole way too small. Unless you want to thread your cord through them with a needle it can't be done. It just so happens that the carbiners fit through the holes well and make an enlarged opening. Workes great for chain too where you can link directly into it. Also it is so much easier being able to slip rope through the carbiner and then tighten rather than a fully closed hole.

3) As mentioned before - anything where you will be hoisting something up. Food is the most common think to be hoisted when bears and racoons are about.

4) On boats - you are always using rope and these things always come in handy.

 

[vector001]

Who has questioned his honor? Or has been hostile?

Why are you and Don Rearic so eager to defend the honor of a man nobody has attacked?

i guess it was...;

1) your use of the word "gimmick"

2) the cadence of your writing, which seemed to me to imply that there were no other possibilities, within the limits of your powers of deduction, sir.

i humbly bow in apology to you, if that was not your intention.

........


vec

 

[vector001]

another use of carabiners, ...which might not be applicable to those here that are not in some military, survival, or force situation is quick, reliable attachment of weapons to Load Bearing Gear.

fastex buckles, for example, ...which are common on contemporary slings, break quickly, compared to a carabiner, and have fewer applications.

alternatives, such as prussik knots, for weapons retention, line acension, et al, are also great ...but they will never duplicate the happy quick snap of a made-in-gawddam-america carabiner .......

so they have many uses ...and more than three, which is the acid test for gear.

just like idiots, ...which is why ya can't shoot 'em probably.......

....(wink!)....

har...!

vec

 

[DOC-CANADA]

I just want to make a couple of points. I also have Ron Hoods videos and my take on it isn't that he's saying, "Hey guys, go and make one of these things -greatest thing since sliced bread!". What he does say is that he is trying to demonstrate innovation- being creative.

Some posts have mentioned using a carabiner to get the rope up into a tree for hanging food. Another application of the DelBow can be for putting the bear bag rope up in the tree in the first place. After years of tying/taping etc. rocks to a rope, tying monkey's fists and all that, the easiest method we adapted and now use is this - an arrow-flinging slingshot.

It works great. I first got the idea from a biologist who was working in the canopy of the rain forest. He used a bow to get his climbing rope up where he wanted it. A slingshot (or a DelBow) is much easier to pack, considering we don't have the same height requirements as the biologist and it gets you back to the beer and the campfire much quicker.

Doc

 

[ironraven]

If you can't find a use, you aren't trying hard enough. I usually use one in my pack to hold all the little things (spare flashlight, krill lamp, car keys, ets) that I keep on dummy cords or split rings. The webbing I use for hanging my hammock has loops sewn into the ends- wrap them around a tree trunk, clip together with biners. And if you have to do the infamous "poncho raft" or something similiar to get your pack across moving water that you can't wade, put a tow line on the raft, hang the over to your belt/waist band, without letting the gate close- easier to unclip this if something goes wrong than it is to try to cut the line.

Also, if others in your group can't really tie knots, put a biner on the end of the bear bag line and clip it to a loop you've attached to a tent stake- that way, they can go get the food and not screw it up.

 

[boing]

Easiest way to attach the dog's leash to my waistbelt for hands-free hiking, or to a tree for dog-free dinking about. Also for securing loose drawstrings on my pack when it's not full.

My little blue biners are far too trendy-looking to be taken seriously, so poseurism isn't a concern.

 

[Midnight Scout]

Biners on backpack=climbing poser.

No real need for biners in the BC. I own dozens and dozens and only pull them out to go climbing. You need more than one for any true technical endeavor.

Even better than biners on the pack is a Nalgene clipped to it via the cap retention strap which will eventually break.

I mean, that is my feeling too. If you are going to go climbing, I can see having one (well, actually, many), but when I see someone with one clipped onto a pack, I wonder what they are going to use it for. I have never seen the Nalgene bottle clipped that way, but I hate having things flopping around, so I would never clip a bottle that way myself.