Carbon fiber spydies

[The Deacon]

Many people make the assumption that, because the back of the scales does not exhibit the basketweave pattern normally associated with CF, it has to be something else. In truth, the material below the "beauty" layers of the CF used in Taiwan could just as easily be CF, just not the same weave.

 

[mley1]

Many people make the assumption that, because the back of the scales does not exhibit the basketweave pattern normally associated with CF, it has to be something else. In truth, the material below the "beauty" layers of the CF used in Taiwan could just as easily be CF, just not the same weave.

That is one reason I was hoping to hear from Sal or one of the other folks who work at Spyderco. It would be nice to know just what the scoop is on the scales. I would not have ever questioned the scales at all had CTS not said their content was not 100% carbon fiber, rather only a small percentage is carbon fiber. I would really like a definite answer on the scales cf content. And if they arent 100% cf, what percentage is. And what was the reason they were constructed that way. I am very curious about this.

 

[The Deacon]

That is one reason I was hoping to hear from Sal or one of the other folks who work at Spyderco. It would be nice to know just what the scoop is on the scales. I would not have ever questioned the scales at all had CTS not said their content was not 100% carbon fiber, rather only a small percentage is carbon fiber. I would really like a definite answer on the scales cf content. And if they arent 100% cf, what percentage is. And what was the reason they were constructed that way. I am very curious about this.

Let's, for the sake of argument, say the material is part CF composite and part "something else". From a purely practical standpoint, what difference would it make? We're not talking an airframe intended for high G force aerobatics or the chassis components of a Formula 1 car, where CF composites are used as structural members. The scales on these knives are not structural at all, they're purely ornamental so, if the outer layers are CF composite, the balance is some other composite with similar strength compressive strength, and the material looks good, that's all that really matters. If the only way the twill textured CF material used on the models from Taichung is available is as a laminate of two different composites, then the other option would be to lose that texture. For what? To me, doing that would be a step backward. What would be the gain?

FWIW, no CF composite is 100% CF, just like G-10 is not 100% fiberglass. Both contain resin. CF, by itself, is pretty useless.

 

[Elgreco]

The scales wouldn't sit flat if it had the weave texture on the bottom either.

 

[mley1]

Let's, for the sake of argument, say the material is part CF composite and part "something else". From a purely practical standpoint, what difference would it make? We're not talking an airframe intended for high G force aerobatics or the chassis components of a Formula 1 car, where CF composites are used as structural members. The scales on these knives are not structural at all, they're purely ornamental so, if the outer layers are CF composite, the balance is some other composite with similar strength compressive strength, and the material looks good, that's all that really matters. If the only way the twill textured CF material used on the models from Taichung is available is as a laminate of two different composites, then the other option would be to lose that texture. For what? To me, doing that would be a step backward. What would be the gain?

FWIW, no CF composite is 100% CF, just like G-10 is not 100% fiberglass. Both contain resin. CF, by itself, is pretty useless.

Well, like I said earlier, I would never have questioned the scales at all had cts not mentioned it. I am happy with how my scales look and feel. I was, however, under the impression they were entirely cf. So I am curious now as to their composition. As yet no one has any definitive answer for me.

I looked on the inside of my cf m390 Millie by peering in where the blade closes into the handle. The inside of its scale has the pattern and texture of the outside of the GB and Sage scales. So it would appear that the Millie scale is cf all the way through.

You asked what difference it would make from a practical standpoint. None I suppose. The GB and Sage have liners that support the scales structurally. I find it a bit curious that the Millies scales appear to be cf all the way through the scale though, and the GB and Sage apparently dont. Why not? Was it cheaper to produce them that way. Different vender mabe? And if they are a laminate, what are they laminated to? And why not call them a laminate? They go to great lengths to describe their steel, frn scales, locks......etc. Why not desrcribe these scales more?

So far nobody has posted any definitive answers to my questions. Durn, CTS. Perhaps I shouldnt have read your post. Now you got me wondering. When that happens I rarely let go until I find the answers to my questions.

Thanks for the comments on the subject so far fellas. I am sorry if I sort of took this thread off track.

 

[The Deacon]

Well, like I said earlier, I would never have questioned the scales at all had cts not mentioned it. I am happy with how my scales look and feel. I was, however, under the impression they were entirely cf. So I am curious now as to their composition. As yet no one has any definitive answer for me.

I looked on the inside of my cf m390 Millie by peering in where the blade closes into the handle. The inside of its scale has the pattern and texture of the outside of the GB and Sage scales. So it would appear that the Millie scale is cf all the way through.

You asked what difference it would make from a practical standpoint. None I suppose. The GB and Sage have liners that support the scales structurally. I find it a bit curious that the Millies scales appear to be cf all the way through the scale though, and the GB and Sage apparently dont. Why not? Was it cheaper to produce them that way. Different vender mabe? And if they are a laminate, what are they laminated to? And why not call them a laminate? They go to great lengths to describe their steel, frn scales, locks......etc. Why not desrcribe these scales more?

So far nobody has posted any definitive answers to my questions. Durn, CTS. Perhaps I shouldnt have read your post. Now you got me wondering. When that happens I rarely let go until I find the answers to my questions.

Thanks for the comments on the subject so far fellas. I am sorry if I sort of took this thread off track.

You might want to look at Sal's post in this thread on the Spyderco Factory Forum. It's probably as close to specifics as you're likely to get.

As for the rest. My assumption would be that the CF material used on the Taichung knives is the only material available with that surface texture. I suppose if one habitually peers inside their knife seeing a neat looking pattern there may be of some value to them. Personally, assuming such material was available with the twill texture, I'd rather not pay extra for it.

Also, FWIW, the Military only has partial liners, so one could argue that, unlike the models from Taichung, the scales are at least somewhat structural. Don't think that's really an issue, doubt there's any significant difference in rigidity.

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Many people make the assumption that, because the back of the scales does not exhibit the basketweave pattern normally associated with CF, it has to be something else. In truth, the material below the "beauty" layers of the CF used in Taiwan could just as easily be CF, just not the same weave.

No, it's most definitely G10.

ETA: Black G10, to be precise. I've cut into it, and it is most definitely, without a doubt g10.

Edited again to add:

I don't understand why it matter so much that the scales are partly g10 and partly CF. If I had to make a painfully obvious guess, I'd say that they did it to save money.....save US money. Have you ever bought a sheet of CF? I have, it's insanely expensive. The sage 1 is a WHOLE LOT of knife for the money. Point me to another knife that is built that well with those materials that costs around the same. You can't, because there isn't. Look, be thankful that Spyderco did it that way, so that you can buy a knife that costs less, while being functionally and aesthetically the same as it would be if it DID use full CF scales. They did it for the end user, no doubt.

 

[mley1]

You might want to look at Sal's post in this thread on the Spyderco Factory Forum. It's probably as close to specifics as you're likely to get.

As for the rest. My assumption would be that the CF material used on the Taichung knives is the only material available with that surface texture. I suppose if one habitually peers inside their knife seeing a neat looking pattern there may be of some value to them. Personally, assuming such material was available with the twill texture, I'd rather not pay extra for it.

Also, FWIW, the Military only has partial liners, so one could argue that, unlike the models from Taichung, the scales are at least somewhat structural. Don't think that's really an issue, doubt there's any significant difference in rigidity.

Thanks for the link Deacon. I see I was not the only one who was curious on the composition of the scales. I hadnt thought about posting a question over there. Glad I didnt. Looks like some folks get a little nippy when someone questions Spyderco on something over there. I appreciate you helping me out with the link Deacon. It did seem that Sals comment was a bit general and vague. Perhaps in the business world that is how he must be. I like that he did comment. You dont find many ceo's who participate with their end customers on forums. His participation here is one reason I began aquiring Spyderco knives.

At any rate, I learned something new about my knives. And I appreciate ya'lls help in my learning process.

 

[The Deacon]

No, it's most definitely G10.

ETA: Black G10, to be precise. I've cut into it, and it is most definitely, without a doubt g10.

Edited again to add:

I don't understand why it matter so much that the scales are partly g10 and partly CF. If I had to make a painfully obvious guess, I'd say that they did it to save money.....save US money. Have you ever bought a sheet of CF? I have, it's insanely expensive. The sage 1 is a WHOLE LOT of knife for the money. Point me to another knife that is built that well with those materials that costs around the same. You can't, because there isn't. Look, be thankful that Spyderco did it that way, so that you can buy a knife that costs less, while being functionally and aesthetically the same as it would be if it DID use full CF scales. They did it for the end user, no doubt.

Unlike CF composites, for which there are no standards, G-10 must consist of both fiberglass and a specific resin. Change the resin and you have some other member of the "G" family. Did you have it analyzed by a professional test lab, or are we to just take your word that it's G-10? Given your track record, I can't find a single reason to do that.

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Unlike CF composites, for which there are no standards, G-10 must consist of both fiberglass and a specific resin. Change the resin and you have some other member of the "G" family. Did you have it analyzed by a professional test lab, or are we to just take your word that it's G-10? Given your track record, I can't find a single reason to do that.

Haha no, it's some member of the fiber/resin composite family, but CF it ain't.