carbon steel still popular?

after experiencing fallkniven i'm wondering about that too

its stainless and yet sharper than my 1095 knife
 
gustav said:
Its for cutting only. I like carbon steel and find that the take an awesome edge but I am beginning to wonder if its worth the extra care if 12c27 ( is that good in retaining an edge) like what some folks say. I do not own 12c27 except for filleting knives so I cant really tell.

Is simple carbon steel indeed better than say 12c27 in edge retention?
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Here's my take on this. I do not like carbon steels for working with food. The carbon steels leave a disgusting grey when I cut acidic foods like apples. I know it is harmless, but I don't like it.

Other than that, I really prefer carbon. What extra care are you referring to? For example, I live in a dry climate. I clean and dry all my knives when done, and put them in their sheaths, no oil. Even my carbon knives, some have been stored this way for 24 years, no rust. They will patina over time, but I like the look of a good patina.

There are some stainless steels that I like, VG 10 being one. I do, however, find a good carbon steel knife generally easier to sharpen.

However, you can ruin any steel with a bad heat treat and geometry. I have some 1095 knives that I keep for sentimental value, but they are too soft to hold a good edge. I have some M2 knives that are really hard, and hold their edge longer than anything, except properly hardened super steels.

All that being said, if the heat treat is good, I love 52100, M2, and 1095. Great steels when properly applied.
 
gustav said:
I agree that carbon steel are easier to sharpen but is the extra effort in caring for the blade justifiable?

It seems like every time it rust, its taking a little bit of the knife away. where as for stainless theres more frequent need to sharpen the blade, thereby wearing the knife more compared to carbon steel which can be steeled.
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I prefer carbon steel blades and have been using them for many years, even around saltwater. Patina yes but never had one rust.

All that's needed to prevent rust is dry the blade off, if it gets wet and maybe rub a little oil on the blade once in a while.
 
For me I would rather use 12C27mod, 12C27, and 13C26/AEB-L than any simple carbon steel. 52100, O1, and 1095 are not that wear resistant. These stainless steels have the toughness and ease of sharpening of a carbon steel along with greater wear resistance and corrosion resistance. Then there are even greater wear resistance stainlesses for some applications.

PM tool steels can have better combinations of wear resistance and toughness (10V is more wear resistant than S90V and tougher than S30V, for example), but I can usually sacrifice a little toughness for corrosion resistance.
 
gustav said:
I agree that carbon steel are easier to sharpen but is the extra effort in caring for the blade justifiable?

It seems like every time it rust, its taking a little bit of the knife away.
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What extra care? Is it to much for you to run a cloth over your knife when you're done using it? Or to wipe a little canola oil on it if you know you won't be using it for a while?

I took my carbon steel Mora salt water fishing this year in the Pacific Ocean, and had no rust problems whatsoever.

I already had somewhat of a patina so that might have helped, but it did not disintegrate into a pile of orange dust like people would have you to believe on these forums.

We were out from 5am to 4pm and all I did was dry it when I got home and put a little canola oil on it, and never saw a spot of rust.

The leather sheath got damaged more than the knife.
 
Carbon steel. Tougher and takes a better edge. Generalized, but that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

If you're after a pocket knife or small slicer, ATS-34 or D2 works very well if heat treated to HRC 60-61 by a pro, such as Paul Bos. -Just my .02.
 
sodak said:
Here's my take on this. I do not like carbon steels for working with food. The carbon steels leave a disgusting grey when I cut acidic foods like apples. I know it is harmless, but I don't like it.

Other than that, I really prefer carbon. What extra care are you referring to? For example, I live in a dry climate. I clean and dry all my knives when done, and put them in their sheaths, no oil. Even my carbon knives, some have been stored this way for 24 years, no rust. They will patina over time, but I like the look of a good patina.
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That gray will go away in time. Once the patina is fully set, the gray doesn't end up on food. All of my favorite kitchen knives are carbon, and there isn't a gray smear in sight.

The extra care is really pretty minimal. I've used carbon folders at work for many years, and the "care" is simply wiping the blade on my shorts when I'm done with it, and dropping it back in my pocket. If you think carbon needs much more than that, I've a 15 year old Old Timer stockman that will disagree.

Oddly, it's my stainless blades that sometimes need more- I've had a peppering of rust show on a few 420HC knives given the above use, but nothing on any carbon from 1095 to 0176C to D2.
 
Flat grinder, I love your sig line! Cliff is dead right on this.

Where has he been?
 
Sword and Shield said:
That gray will go away in time. Once the patina is fully set, the gray doesn't end up on food. All of my favorite kitchen knives are carbon, and there isn't a gray smear in sight.

The extra care is really pretty minimal. I've used carbon folders at work for many years, and the "care" is simply wiping the blade on my shorts when I'm done with it, and dropping it back in my pocket. If you think carbon needs much more than that, I've a 15 year old Old Timer stockman that will disagree.

Oddly, it's my stainless blades that sometimes need more- I've had a peppering of rust show on a few 420HC knives given the above use, but nothing on any carbon from 1095 to 0176C to D2.
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That's good to know, thanks! I might have to help the patina along on some of my favorite knives to get past the grey thing. I guess I'm lucky, living in Colorado, I've never had a knive rust, unless I put it away wet.
 
My name is ahgar and I'm a carbon steel lover. I don't live around saltwater, so that's not a problem, my thinking is put a nice patina on it and go. It does require a little care but i don't have a problem with that. It's a bit like a zippo lighter, the disposable butane lighters work great, are cheaper, and you don't have to refill them. in contrast the zippos are more expensive, and have to be filled regularly whether you use them or not but a zippo has character and kind of becomes a part of you from the time and care you put in it, a carbon steel knife is similar in that it requires time and care. Sure there are some great stainless steels that cut,sharpen, and hold up great but they pretty much all look the same as opposed to carbon which takes on a patina from years/use. But that's just me, ahgar
 
I prefer carbon steel over stainless. Carbon steel knives are extremely easy to sharpen and hold a great edge. I think the whole rust issue is exagerrated. I use Old Hickory knives in the kitchen, and simply wipe them off when I'm done. I occasionally rub a light coating of cooking oil on the blade, but that's about it. The patina gives the knife character. Carbon steel knives are tougher, and seem to hold lower edge angles better than stainless.

For typical EDC tasks involvinig a pocket knife, I don't think your average user will notice much of a difference between quality carbon and stainless steels. Most manufacturers do not produce many carbon steel knives; especially folders. For folders, stainless is generally the only option anyway.
 
A real bummer, can't he do some community service. Like pick up trash at a local gun show?
 
chrisaloia said:
A real bummer, can't he do some community service. Like pick up trash at a local gun show?
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I find it quite disappointing. The man had considerable knowledge to share.

Did he commit some cardinal sin like saying something bad about the wrong person's favorite steel??:(:(:(


Well, I'm not a moderator, so I guess I'll let it go and not get worked up over it. But I'm certainly disappointed.
 
Gustav,
An important thing to remember is that hardness of a blade does not specifically relate to the edge holding ability of a blade. There is NO definitive measure of edge retention ability and it is therefore m\based more on a makers gut feel than anything else... and the verdict (as I have seen) among most makers is that carbon steel are superior in edge holding ability. I think a lot of knife nuts are as obsessive about how keen an edge snd howw durable it is as they are about the looks of the knife

Many general purpose kitchen knives are specifically made softer because a lot of people would prefer a knife that can be easily sharpened even if it bluntens quickly (such as 440A) I think most knifenuts on the other hand would rather a knife hold an edge for a month and then spend half an hour resharpening it! Hell I sharpen a sharp knife just to see how much sharper I can get it!
 
With an HF belt sander and a bunch of belts, including leathers charged with different grits, it's only a couple of quick passes on each side to bring an edge back to hair-popping sharp. It takes me longer than that to walk downstairs to my shop. It's completely different if you're out in the wilderness, of course.

For me, a big issue is whether you can straighten and polish an edge, or whether you need to re-hone. You straight razor users will know exactly what I'm saying.

Edit: BTW: On Cliff, I did briefly glance at a thread that seemed to be a big brouhaha with some very personal attacks. Having zero appetite for rancor, I quickly moved on. Perhaps a moment's indiscretion turned into our loss. Pity.
 
Another benefit is , if i am correctly informed, that carbon steel is way forgiving to lateral stress, and that it wil bend instead of break. I rather have a bend knife then a blade that suddenly snaps with the possibility of serious injury, a bend knife will still cut better then a broken one.
 
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