Carbon Steel vs. Stainless

Joined
Jul 3, 2000
Messages
97
I'm just curious, with all of the carbon steel discussions of late, is it still important to consumers to have the option to purchase knives with carbon steel blades, or would today's stainless steel be sufficient?
 
I personally prefer carbon steel in many knives, especially slipjoints.
 
I will not buy any of your stainless knives. The 440A you use in your pocket knives holds an edge about 1/2 as long as the 1095 steel. I tried this on lengths of card board. If you produce knives with better stainless...vg10,154cm..etc I might buy them. However, the increase in price for these steels would not be worth it to me since the 1095 performs as well as the better quality stainless for a better price. The last 3 custom knives I purchased were non stainless...forged 52100. For the Walmart market the 440A will probably suffice since you must compete against the slave labour camp produced far east products.
 
I agree completely with bansidthe. The Shrade+ stainless just doesn't cut the mustard anymore. I'd consider 440C or Aus8 to be a minimum on stainless. Even 420HC like Camillus and Buck uses would be a nice upgrade.

Your 1095 carbon steel just happens to be both cost effective and outstandingly good. No it's no stainless, but it takes an edge well and holds it.

Personally, I'd die for a natural handled slipjoint with good steel. I like a few of my German knives, but I'd much prefer a good American made knife..... especially one that's made in New York. :)
 
I sold off my Uncle Henry stockman because it wouldn't take an edge like my Old Timer Middleman Jack. Gotta love that carbon steel!
 
I just bought an Old Timer 96OT Bearhead Trapper to go with a number of other Old Timer 1095 knives that I have. And, I have my eye on a few other 1095 Old Timers as well. I have no stainless Schrades and I'm not likely to buy any. The stainless Schrades are probably okay, but I wouldn't buy them myself. So yes, it's important that Schrade keep making their 1095 knives in addition to their stainless ones.
 
I will not buy your stainless steel knives either, for the same reasons everyone else has mentioned.

What I wish you would do is put out some slipjoints with 1095 blades and jigged bone scales. Now those, I would definitely buy.
 
Yes, it is important! I prefer good carbon steel over stainless for most applications. If taken care of properly, it will prove to be excellent for most daily tasks. I wouldn't use it if I worked on a fishing trawler or for a diving knife, but for normal, dry-land stuff, it's great. My favorite Case knives, for example, are the CV ones. I have four Old Timers, and they all sharpen and hold an edge very well. My 8-OT is my EDC. Plus, I like the patina thing. I do, however have a couple of Uncle Henrys that I like, an 897UH and 895UH. I like the style of the 897, and would love to see that in an Old Timer (I know there was one, and has been discontinued). My 895 trapper takes a good edge, but it does dull quicker than my Old Timers. 440C would be a great alternative for the Uncle Henrys.

Steve
 
I think that carbon steel blades are a large part of the appeal of the Old Timer line. I was excited when I heard the announcement about the Old Timer line with jigged bone handles, but disappointed when I called Schrade and discovered that they were only being made in stainless. I've always seen the Old Timer line as no-nonsense, precision tools, and the carbon steel is simply wonderful for a number of applications. I don't think that having a highly polished, stain-free blade is a priority for people who actually use these knives. As for collecting purposes, carbon will hold up just fine in a display case with even a minimum of care. I think the better option is to have a working knife that can be collected with a minimum of care, instead of a collector knife that cannot be used for work without constant maintenance. Please consider carbon steels as an option for the Old Timer Classics lines, as well as maybe a jack pattern.
 
I believe that carbon steel became and remained popular in older knives, and when stainless came along, held its lead in being relatively easy to sharpen to a very keen edge and presumably fairly tough. I generally prefer carbon steel in slip-joints because the stainless alternatives are not usually as good, with the exception of the benefits of rust resistance. The sharpest knives I remember in my youth were the ones with carbon steel blades– including a Shrade Old Timer pen knife, I lost, that I intend on replacing

There are a few higher quality stainless knives that bear resemblance to traditional ones. If one considers a Buck 532–a mid-lock-back–a traditional one, I even own one. It is extremely sharp and has BG-42 steel. Although I got it for a good price, it is not a $15 to $25 dollar knife.

If we were told that Shrade had just obtained such a good price on VG-10, BG-42, or D2 enhanced steel, that they could make Old Timers in them for just a few dollars more, you might convince some that they could do without carbon steel, as these steels hold a great edge. Unfortunately, the manufacturing/tooling costs would remain high for these materials and so this seems implausible. Even then, there are those who still prefer a tool steel blade, in high dollar folders, for added toughness...unless CPM 3-V comes out in a tough stainless.

In sum, it appears that one is going to be able to obtain a better quality, sharper, inexpensive knife, in carbon steel.
 
I just heard that Queen Cutlery has discontinued their ATS-34 line of bone handled pocket knives. It sounds like a perfect time for Schrade to step up to the plate with some bone handled ATS-34 knives. I personally consider ATS-34 to be plenty good enough for slipjoints, and is much easier to find than good BG-42, D2 or some other miracle steel.

Now if Schrade only made a Wharncliffe whittler pattern....... You wouldn't believe how much a bone handled production Wharncliffe whittler or half whittler costs, whether it's ATS-34 or carbon steel.

Marbles 1095 carbon steel at A.G. Russell - $185.00
Winchester carbon steel at Bluegrass Cutlery - $95.00
Robeson ATS-34 steel at Bullman Cutlery - $69.26

I bet that a Schrade made model would be much more cost effective.

I started doing a whole lot of whittling this summer. I just can't go back to sheepsfoot and clip blades after using a Wharncliffe blade. The Wharncliffe blade is such a pleasure to use when you're digging out small precise areas of wood. No other shape even comes close. But until I can find someone with a Robeson in stock, or until prices drop on carbon steel Wharncliffes, I’ll have to live with my wood handled AUS-6 Kershaw.

Hmmmm…… that brings another idea to mind. The lock and thumb stud on the Kershaw Double Cross is absolutely sensational. Schrade would do very well to look into how that knife is made. The design is very good. Too bad it’s done with AUS-6 and wood. ATS-34 and bone would make it the top dog in the world of traditional styled pocket knives. Combine that with a Wharncliffe whittler pattern and you’d have the perfect pocket knife. :D
 
Buzzbait - did Queen discontinue the red winterbottom bone knives completely - or did they just switch away from ATS-34 to another steel as they have done with the Schatt & Morgans?

I too, really appreciate the Schrade knives with the carbon steel blades. I have many of the older bonde handle Schrades in my collection and I lust love the way they used to put a fine crocus finish on the blades - more attractive I think than a mirror polish.

Buzzbait, BTW, I have several of the Wharncliffe knives that you mentioned in my "Sale" roll....very reasonable....how can we get together on them if you're interested? I know this forum is not for buying and selling.
 
knifeaholic - I'm not sure about the various bone materials. I only heard that the ATS-34 was discontinued. As for the knives I was looking at, I did manage to source out some Robesons wharncliffes. I'll shoot you an email if I get brave enough to think about the Winchesters or Marbles. Do you know if the Winchester wharncliffes are Case or Queen made?

And back to the subject again. I posted in a couple of places that I'd found a source for the Queen ATS-34 knives, and eveybody has been asking about my source. This leads me to believe that a Schrade ATS-34 line of slipjoints would meet with resounding applause from the crowd!!!
 
Buzzbait - The Winchesters are Queen made and are carbon steel.
One of the ones that I have is a Case Classic medium (3-5/8") wharncliffe (carbon steel) - also made by Queen - similar to the Winchester and made from the same tooling - my Case Classic 63055 is lightly used (50-). Also have one of the Robeson small Wharncliffe 2 bl pens in ATS-34 (mint in box)(45-). Also a Wincehster (carbon steel) and a Robeson (ATS-34) swell-center whittler (lightly used). All great whittling knives and alreasy broken in.

I agree with your posts - I would love to see Schrade patterns in either carbon steel or ATS-34 with jigged browm bone handles.
 
I just gave my 13 year old son a Schrade Old Timer stockman. He has been all caught up in tactical style folders and I wanted him to experience the joy of a good ole fashioned carbon steel slipjoint folder. I asked him to give it a try and carry it for at least a month. He didn't seem to excited at the time. Well, he now carries it all the time to compliment one of his tactical folders. He really likes it. I disagree about the Stainless steel on the Schrade folders. It is by no means terrible and in fact I use one of the stainless stockmans all the time, holds a decent enough edge. Don't get me wrong...I would really like it if a better stainless was available. I agree with Buzzbait that now a days at least Aus-8 would be nice (I actually like this steel). I would like to see Schrade offer both the carbon and stainless slipjoints in jigged bone or stag even if it was on a limited run at a premium price. Any way to answer the original question, I am glad that you still offer carbon steel blades and hope you will continue to do so.
 
I generally prefer carbon steel over any stainless in a knife. It sharpens with little effort, it keeps an edge, it tastes and smells right.
Some high end stainless will keep an edge, but no stainless will keep it longer AND sharpen easier then a simpel carbon steel.
I allso like some of the high speed steels, the reason for this is not ease of sharpening but the increased toughness which allows for a smaller sharpening angle.
I don't care for plastic handles on knives.
Serrations are for bread knives only.
What is this fighting knife crap anyhow.
The way I was brought up, It's ok to die in
a fight, but only slimy creaps use knives in a fight, no matter what weaponry the opposition uses.
Ok, that was enough flame-bait.
I would love carbon steel Old Timers with bone or wood handle scales.
john
 
Tim,

Since many company's use really crappy types of stainless I think it's very important to offer carbon steel.

Regards,

Tom Carey
 
I prefer the carbon steel blades for every day
use as they can be resharpened relatively easily.
Like the idea of stainless, but they lose their
appeal when you can't resharpen them.
That said I probably have more stainless than carbon
steel knives at present, but my next "pocket knife"
puchase will probably be in carbon steel.
 
I believe that many of us are very thankful to Schrade for keeping the carbon steel Old Timer line alive at a very reasonable price.
I just recently got the bug for carbon steel and more traditional pocket knives and was glad to see so many Old Timers around. I also sense a kind of resurrection of carbon steel and traditional materials and patterns. Schrade might have a great niche here.
Among carbon steels, 1095 seems to be regarded better than 440A among the stainless steels. (However, might be still better than another popular stainless steel: 420HC.) Therefore, offers of higher grade stainless steel blades might strengthen Schrade's stainless line.

HM
 
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