Carbon v steel?

gull wing

gull wing

Joined
May 4, 2002
Messages
2,536
Cold Steel's Carbon v steel, can anyone tell me something about it. Who makes it? How is it at holding an edge? Are there any advantages to using it? How does it compare with other popular steels? (Other than it is not stainless)
 
The common view is that Carbon V is 50100-B, also known as 0170-6. This is a high grade steel and compares very well to other top carbon steels.
 
One of my favorite steels in a commercial grade knife.

The Laredo Bowie, the Trailmaster etc hold a very good edge, sharpen fairly easily, and are not so fragile that they can't take a small amount of lateral stress without snapping the blades.

Brownie
 
Excellent steel. Rusts fairly easily and quickly, though.
 
You really can't expect anything out of "Carbon V" because it isn't a steel just a name. Cold Steel has used different steels for it in the past, some have been tested and found to be very good steels like Keith mentioned.

I have used other Cold Steel Carbon V blades and found them to chip out much more readily than Beckers, which in fact had more acute angles, and are supposed to be the same steel.

Thus when you look around you get a lot os positive responces, and then almost exact opposite perspectives.

In general you are much better off going with a specific product, like Becker or Swamp Rat, etc. .

-Cliff
 
I have found Carbon V to take an edge quit easy and hold it a long time, although it will rust if not oiled down it will rust easily. I have used the Master Hunter many years skinning deer and it is one excellent knife for this ( hunting ), I love the flat grind and distal taper which slices sooo nice!! Also the kraton handle, although not made for chopping, doesn't slip when wet ( blood from deer ) which alot of other handle material seems to. my 0.02
 
Sorry to disagree Cliff, but there is consitency in Carbon V. That's provided by Lynn and his research staff. The only thing Cold Steel says directly is that the steel has to meet specifications, is tested and bought in large batches to assure consistent quality. It is widely believed that Camillus makes the Carbon V, which is also the producer of the Becker you recommended. The blade failure phenomena you cite could be due to the normal variation in a manufactured product, not due to inconsistent or poor steel.
 
Mike Turber noted awhile ago that Cold Steel recently (last few years) switched to using a specific type of steel, from a brand name, you can find the post(s) in the archives, this was also discussed extensively on rec.knives and older knife lists where several makers had the steel tested, leading the above post by Keith - this is an old question. Problem is of course a lot of these older knives are still out there. Then you also have the similar issue that "Cold Steel" itself is more of a name than a brand, these knives are not made in house like Busse or Reeves, but made elsewhere and sold under the name so not all Cold Steel knives are of similar quality. Of course this holds for other companies as well.

Of course if you want to write it all off as just QC that is easily possible, that looks worse though in my opinion. The customer service is also very poor in that respect because I asked Cold Steel about this very fact several times with no responce, having seen different behaviour in various "Carbon V" knives. You can find other similar problems noted in the forums, in fact I did the bone chopping test in responce to a complaint that someone wrote about with a Trailmaster on Bladeforums.

-Cliff
 
I also have a Cold Steel Master Hunter in Carbon V and can't say much bad about it. I use the knife as my outside do it all and I think it is pretty ok bang for the buck. It takes a good edge and holds it fairly well. The blade is also fairly tough - although I'll admit I haven't done much chopping with it. The wash, dry and oil and do not store in the sheath thing got to me a bit, so I bought some liquid blue and blued my Master Hunter. It now looks twice as nasty and I'd guestimate that it cut my maintenance by half at least (you still have to keep the blade dry blah blah blah, but I haven't oiled it for a while and she still looks ok - admitedly you can't see the stains now anyway! :D )

I don't think you'll be dissapointed, but I'm not up to speed about the variable quality issues etc.

Cheers,

Greg
 
Many people have gotten good customer service from cold steel, myself included. Coldsteel is a brand, not just a name. There is consitency in their design, products, and quality. It certainly is not top drawer, maybe even slightly overpriced, but they have some good products that have withstood the test of time and hard use.

There is also consitency in Mr. Stamp's negative comments on both the company and their products. Suffice it to say, Mr. Stamp is not a disinterested observer. He has a personal conflict with Coldsteel that has been aired many times in the past.
 
brownshoe said:
There is also consitency in Mr. Stamp's negative comments on both the company and their products.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I actually take it as a positive sign when somebody's advice isn't constantly changing...
 
Yeah, thats kind of a weird complaint. My "issue" with Cold Steel by the way which is probably being refered to is simply one of a failure to respond to problems with the knives. By the above logic you can dismiss any complaint about a company from an individual as they obviously have "issues" with them. Well yeah, kind of as otherwise they would not have made the complaint. You would also expect said perspective not to change unless the company ever dealt with the problem (which they never did in this case).

As for the "testing" by COld Steel, that is all hype, none of it is supported and thus it is meaningless. Unless they have changed recently and now you can attempt to duplicate their claims without it voiding the warrenty.

This isn't to say they don't make nice knives, my comment was simple the steel isn't a particular type, this is well known, and has been for some time.

For most of the knives I would look elsewhere, Becker and Swamp Rat for the utility blades, and Spyderco for the folders, those are all directly better products.

-Cliff
 
Interesting Mr. Stamp you recommend Becker. They are made by the same manufacturer that makes the carbon V. In addition, some of the pundits on the forums have stated they believe that carbon V is actually the same steel as used in the Beckers.

Mr. Stamp I have read virtually all you've written about your problems with coldsteel, and you certainly were not just a normal consumer with a normal complaint. To compare yourself to a normal consumer is not being veracious.
 
For that matter, the same people put out the Ford Mustang and the Ford Pinto, but I'd be much more nervous riding in the latter than the former, even from the same era.

I've only ever had one steel quality issue from Cold Steel (one of the old Red River knives that has large sections of its edge disappear from sharpening because of extensive inclusions) but consistent trouble with the attachment of their kraton handles on large knives. I've owned an SRK, Recon Scout, and two Ghurka khukuries. Of these, only the Recon Scout's handle stayed firmly attached to the tang, and that I think only because I was very reserved in my use of it, having learned my lesson from the others. The first khuk came with a loose handle, which I was able to get replaced by Cold Steel, and then the second developed a loose handle after a couple months of use brush clearing. After informing Cold Steel and being told that "nothing lasts forever" I decided that their concept of forever and mine were two extremely different things. I've since moved on to greener pastures.
 
brownshoe said:
Interesting Mr. Stamp you recommend Becker. They are made by the same manufacturer that makes the carbon V. In addition, some of the pundits on the forums have stated they believe that carbon V is actually the same steel as used in the Beckers.
Click to expand...
You're stating this as a fact and while it might be true today, will it be true tomorrow? In any case, there are other versions of Carbon V out there of questionable metalurgy.

The bottom line is that there is no specific listing of the metalurgy of Carbon V because it has and probably will continue to change at Cold Steel's whim. Cold Steel probably doesn't want to get specific and call it 0170-6C steel because then they'd be stuck with a specific type of steel and couldn't buy cheaper as the market allowed. Follow the money, it's all about turning a profit.
 
Not only does Camillus provide the steel - they make the knives.
There is nothing wrong with Camillus or Cold Steel.
After all the belly aching around here about 420hc - CS went so far as to
change back to Carbon V for a number of their models -
while Buck adopted 420hc for it's new Strider fixed blade.
There's just no pleasing some people around here.
CS remains the brand against which other low cost knives must be compared.
 
There's been plenty of bellyaching directed at Buck, too, and I seriously doubt that our opinions made much of a difference to Cold Steel--since they don't maintain a presence here. I'd say they switched steels because of poor sales, and all of us together are a small segment of the knife buying public. Carbon V (whatever it is at any given time) is certainly an improvement on 420, so I'll give them credit there, but with the consistent problems I've had with their handles and their "It's not new in box so we can't fix it" attitude, I am still unimpressed overall. I get a full replacement guarantee from Becker on a $45.00 knife, so I'd hardly look at Cold Steel as the people to beat on low-cost performance.
 
Agree. I have a Becker BK7 and unlike the CS knives, I know the blade steel is 0170-6C because that's what Becker uses. It seems to be a good steel for the application. I don't understand why CS doesn't simply drop the Carbon V label and call it 0170-6C like Becker/Camillus.
 
I don't see why I would expect less in regards to customer service from Cold Steel than someone else, this certainly wasn't the case when I had a problem with a Becker, which is one of the reasons I would recommend them readily over Cold Steel, far greater customer service. I have also seen similar issues with QC with Becker, however all were promptly dealt with. Becker also doesn't promote the hype that Cold Steel does, with testing that no one can verify without voiding the warrenty on their knives. So when it comes down to similar models, Becker wins easily. Of course Cold steel has a *lot* more models, a lot of which there is no similar Becker blade.

Yes I have also heard various rumors about the steel and the manufacturing connection between CS and Becker, I heard them when Becker was launched several years ago, and that is all they are unless you actually get someone from either company to make such a statement, and thus it deserves no public attention as do any rumor.

This again is of course nothing more than a side issue, of the original point which is that Carbon V isn't a specific steel, but a brand name - read the archives. Yes, it can be a very solid tool steel, and yes lots of people therefore are well pleased with it, I have had very nice "Carbon V" blades.

The argument is interesting though, first I am "biased" because I have a problem, then its because I am consistent in such a perspective, now I am not an ordinary customer and should therefore expect less customer service as normal. The latter point is even inherently weak because at the time I had the problems with Cold Steel I had just done a handful of reviews, this was years ago. Plus I have no problems even now with customer service issues with other blades. I recently had a problem with a blade with another production company (review will be up in a few weeks), fired off an email to the manufacturer, got a reply in under a day.

-Cliff
 
Suffice to say, if there were any real problem with CS Carbon V we would know it since there are likely more CS Carbon V fixed blades in actual use than any other I can think of. These being especially popular with our troops in both Gulf wars and Afghanistan and, hunters / outdoorsman in this country.
As far as the connection between CS and Camillus - that's pretty solid.
There are only a handful of knife manufacturers in this country and for that matter around the world.
The big three in this country are Buck. Ontario. and Camillus. Camillus being the largest sport knife manufacturer in the world. Only Ontario and Camillus produce high carbon fixed blades in quantity. Ontario specializes in 1095 so that leaves Camillus by default. Of course Cliff has a problem with Ontario blades as well. Maybe we should outsource our high carbon fixed blade production.
 
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