Carbon v steel?

The only real problem is inconsitency and unwillingness to stand by their products, and "we would know it" is an accurate statement since we seem to know it. Nothing wrong inherently, of course, but there have been quality control issues. Cliff is hardly alone in his opinion of Ontario either. They run the gambit from sort of decent to good knives but hardly the best. Plenty of people use Stanley tools and do okay--I prefer Craftsman for a little more money and a lot more quality.

Of course Cold Steel is popular with troops--it's affordable and mostly better from the box than USMC combats and Air Force survival knives in terms of sharpness and returning to sharpness due to better grinds, and also a number of PXs and BXs carry Cold Steel, so they're even more affordable and readily available. Being better than the basic $20 knives doesn't make them the best. I've yet to see Beckers available in post exchanges, and I wish they'd get picked up--same price range and far more rugged tools for troops. Hot temperatures and sandy gloved hands will make short work of kraton.
 
The problem with Ontario is simply one of consistency, you can get one blade too hard, another too soft, and then another which is near perfect, I have seen samples of all three as I have used a lot of Ontario blades. If someone has only used 1-2 and hit one side of the coin they can be left wondering what the other guy is talking about.

Yeah, they should outsource them, or switch the heat treating to deal with thermal mass issues. It can be done, there are no such problems with the Swamp Rat blades, the customer support is also vastly greater. But they are more expensive so decide what you want and get it.

Its possible to get solid Ontario blades, Mike Swaim had great expereince with their machetes, mine broke like glass. I had an excellent Marine Raider bowie, yet I read about one on the forums breaking readily.

Again its all QC issues. Their customer service is supposed to be much greater now, Blues is repeating this heavily, so I wrote them a letter awhile ago describing some of the problems I had.

-Cliff
 
Actually that's a good point that I should have mentioned. I had a small problem with one of the RAT-7s and not only did Jeff Randall get involved to resolve things but I was contacted by an Ontario representative who was very nice and helpful. It could be that they're starting to turn it around.
 
Cliff. I have to credit you for taking such an even - dispassionate tone. That is sometimes rare for me. It certainly lends to your credibility.
 
It is great to hear those types of customer service responces, Ontario has a soldi selection of knives at rock bottom prices, if you could get a reasonable guarantee of performance it would be a very solid introduction to knives. Based on what I have experienced in the past though, I would not currently do so, because for a lot of people, a couple of bad knives and little support is enough to turn them right off a company.

-Cliff
 
As an added info bonus here, you guys may want to drop over to Admiral Steel's site and look under their "Other Services" (or something along that type) section. There they offer mass production of blade blanks. The one they show in their picture is most definitely a Becker Brute. If that is the case, chances are that Admiral does the blanks for most of Camillus' large production knives which would make economic sense in this day and age of bottom line. I too have notice variation over the years in Carbon V. It makes sense that a company would chose an rather ambiguous name for their steel ie: Carbon V, Infi, SR 101 (currently 52100 with a special HT/Cryo but they openly state it.) because it can be changed to meet up with variances in supply or cost as the market changes. On the other side of it, it should allow the company to make market cost and provide nicer handle materials, fit and finish, and sheaths while remaining very competitive.
This is one of the things that actually drives me away from certain brands. I want to know what I'm actually getting. I should be able to do research on any of the materials there. I don't use any special mystery steels in my knives and they cut just peachy.
Just my 0.02.
 
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