Carothers and Guns

Jetlau3 said:
Want to pick up a bear gun for my kit . Options are limited in Cali . Semi auto 10mm (Glock 20/29) or 44 mag revolver ?
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What species of bears do you encounter? That would go a long way towards what I might choose. Black bears aren't hard to kill, but for brown I'd stick with .44 Mag or larger revolver or the 10MM. For black bears a .357 would be plenty of gun if you shoot that better.

I have had .44 revolvers all of my adult life so that's been my carry choice in big bear country, but I wouldn't be against a 10MM or feel under gunned with one. The Glock 20 Gen 5 or S&W 10MM both shoot extremely well in my humble opinion and if I ever add a 10MM handgun to my stable it will most likely be one of those two.

Having said that ... if I didn't already own some big bore revolvers and were looking to buy a handgun specifically for carry in bear country I would probably lean towards the 10MM. I could buy one of the two 10MMs I mentioned and a good batch of ammo for less than any of the .44 revolvers I have. The 10s will give you 15 rounds which is substancial more fire power even vs. my 8 round wheel guns. And even though I use fullmoon clips in many of my revolvers reloads are faster with a spare magazine in a pistol. A 10MM pistol will be easier to shoot for most with less recoil than even a .357 Magnum.

I carry .44 Mag lever guns often and like that I can match the caliber with a revolver, but when I was where I'd see big bears often I generally carry a 12 gauge with slugs so it didn't matter so much anyway.

I love my wheel guns and wouldn't trade them for anything, but in my opinion there are lots of upsides in a 10MM if you're starting out from scratch wanting a handgun for possible bear encounters.
 
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91bravo said:
I went revolver shopping today and handled Smiths, Colts and Rugers. In my mind, the Ruger triggers felt the best. This will be my first real revolver, besides my NAA mini one.
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S&W 337 trr8 is worth a look. It is a tack driver for what it is. It’s a little bulky with the light, but I just chest carry it in the woods with a rig that is made for scoped revolvers. That way it I don’t worry about it getting hung up when I’m in thick brush and trees. 8 shot .357 and milled for moon clips I guess it depends on what you are looking for. It’s probably not the best concealed carry option. But it’s nice to shoot IMG_8801.jpeg
Jetlau3 said:
Want to pick up a bear gun for my kit . Options are limited in Cali . Semi auto 10mm (Glock 20/29) or 44 mag revolver ?
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Cali legal
 
Mendoman said:
S&W 337 trr8 is worth a look. It is a tack driver for what it is. It’s a little bulky with the light, but I just chest carry it in the woods with a rig that is made for scoped revolvers. That way it I don’t worry about it getting hung up when I’m in thick brush and trees. 8 shot .357 and milled for moon clips I guess it depends on what you are looking for. It’s probably not the best concealed carry option. But it’s nice to shoot View attachment 2827405

Cali legal
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Just my personal preference, but I wouldn’t put a light on my revolver. Same reason I wouldn’t throw a scope on a lever gun. It just changes the lines of the gun in my opinion. I do want a revolver to shoot at the range and carry through the woods though.
 
91bravo said:
Just my personal preference, but I wouldn’t put a light on my revolver. Same reason I wouldn’t throw a scope on a lever gun. It just changes the lines of the gun in my opinion. I do want a revolver to shoot at the range and carry through the woods though.
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I get that. I definitely have it on there more for function than for styling. There are times where I’ve been happy I had the light on it. I definitely don’t like that it makes it less convenient and comfortable to carry but it a trade off for having it when I need it. I like the reliability and simplicity of a revolver and in Cali the best you’re going to get is two more bullets in a magazine so it’s a good option for me. I’m not trying to sell you on it or anything but the triggers are better/different on the performance center models like this one.
 
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Mendoman said:
I get that. I definitely have it on there more for function than for styling. There are times where I’ve been happy I had the light on it. I definitely don’t like that it makes it less convenient and comfortable to carry but it a trade off for having it when I need it. I like the reliability and simplicity of a revolver and in Cali the best you’re going to get is two more bullets in a magazine so it’s a good option for me. I’m not trying to sell you on it or anything but the triggers are better/different on the performance center models like this one.
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Whenever I'm in the woods at night I always wear a headlamp along with whatever flashlight I'm carrying at the time. It's really nice to light up fiber optic sights on my revolvers for those things that go bump in the night.

I agree a good chest rig is the way to go if you'll be in steep terrain or heavy brush. It keeps the gun safe from snagging on anything or getting damaged and it gives great acess to it in almost every conceivable situation.
 
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JJ_Colt45 said:
Whenever I'm in the woods at night I always wear a headlamp along with whatever flashlight I'm carrying at the time. It's really nice to light up fiber optic sights on my revolvers for those things that go bump in the night.
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I use a headlamp nightly when I walk the dog along an unlit, wooded, gravel road. Allows my hands to be free to draw a firearm or knife if need be, and my revolver, which I normally carry when walking in the immediate area, only has reflective orange paint on the front sight ramp. The addition of light is very helpful in those dark conditions.
 
JJ_Colt45 said:
What species of bears do you encounter? That would go a long way towards what I might choose. Black bears aren't hard to kill, but for brown I'd stick with .44 Mag or larger revolver or the 10MM. For black bears a .357 would be plenty of gun if you shoot that better.

I have had .44 revolvers all of my adult life so that's been my carry choice in big bear country, but I wouldn't be against a 10MM or feel under gunned with one. The Glock 20 Gen 5 or S&W 10MM both shoot extremely well in my humble opinion and if I ever add a 10MM handgun to my stable it will most likely be one of those two.

Having said that ... if I didn't already own some big bore revolvers and were looking to buy a handgun specifically for carry in bear country I would probably lean towards the 10MM. I could buy one of the two 10MMs I mentioned and a good batch of ammo for less than any of the .44 revolvers I have. The 10s will give you 15 rounds which is substancial more fire power even vs. my 8 round wheel guns. And even though I use fullmoon clips in many of my revolvers reloads are faster with a spare magazine in a pistol. A 10MM pistol will be easier to shoot for most with less recoil than even a .357 Magnum.

I carry .44 Mag lever guns often and like that I can match the caliber with a revolver, but when I was where I'd see big bears often I generally carry a 12 gauge with slugs so it didn't matter so much anyway.

I love my wheel guns and wouldn't trade them for anything, but in my opinion there are lots of upsides in a 10MM if you're starting out from scratch wanting a handgun for possible bear encounters.
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Most of the bears I encounter are black . Lots of bears up in Tahoe around the rubicon trail which we spend a few weeks on every year . That being said I’d want the same kit for brown . Just spent 2 weeks up in Montana last summer around Yellowstone camping through the bear tooth wilderness. Planning a summer trip to Alaska too (Denali) .

I’ll have 12 gauge with slugs but leaning towards a Glock 20 on chest holster or a .44 revolver as the backup
 
Jetlau3 said:
I’ll have 12 gauge with slugs
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The locals here (WY) tell me that’s the only thing fool proof against any bear. Almost made me buy a shot gun.

Then again, statistically, calibre doesn’t seem to matter much:


“We compiled, summarized, and reviewed 269 incidents of bear-human conflict involving firearms that occurred in Alaska during 1883-2009. Encounters involving brown bears (Ursus arctos; 218 incidents, 81%), black bears (Ursus americanus; 30 incidents, 11%), polar bears (Ursus maritimus; 6 incidents, 2%), and 15 (6%) unidentified species provided insight into firearms success and failure. A total of 444 people and at least 367 bears were involved in these incidents. We found no significant difference in success rates (i.e., success being when the bear was stopped in its aggressive behavior) associated with long guns (76%) and handguns (84%). Moreover, firearm bearers suffered the same injury rates in close encounters with bears whether they used their firearms or not. Bears were killed in 61% (n = 162) of bear-firearms incidents. … Firearm variables (e.g., type of gun, number of shots) were not useful in predicting outcomes in bear-firearms incidents….”
 
I have zero experience in bear country but enjoy watching Chuke’s on YouTube. His opinion is the 12ga is the best option but has recently transitioned to a .308 semi. 20 rounds of .30 cal > 6 rounds of slug?? If I ever have a chance to visit bear county, I’d prefer semi auto over bolt/lever. That’s as far as I get.
 
Jabrni said:
I have zero experience in bear country but enjoy watching Chuke’s on YouTube. His opinion is the 12ga is the best option but has recently transitioned to a .308 semi. 20 rounds of .30 cal > 6 rounds of slug?? If I ever have a chance to visit bear county, I’d prefer semi auto over bolt/lever. That’s as far as I get.
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He is considered a joke by many seasoned outdoorsmen up here. Too many people have no real experience around bears and mistake behaviors. If a brown bear is intent on killing you, a ‘mag dump’ is most likely not going to happen. Shooting at a bear because you are scared is not the same as defending yourself from a threat, and unfortunately some folks don’t know the difference.

One problem when looking at DLP shooting of bears here is that some guy defending his chicken coop from a black bear is thrown into the same data as a person being actively mauled by a brown bear.
 
beeinak said:
He is considered a joke by many seasoned outdoorsmen up here. Too many people have no real experience around bears and mistake behaviors. If a brown bear is intent on killing you, a ‘mag dump’ is most likely not going to happen. Shooting at a bear because you are scared is not the same as defending yourself from a threat, and unfortunately some folks don’t know the difference.

One problem when looking at DLP shooting of bears here is that some guy defending his chicken coop from a black bear is thrown into the same data as a person being actively mauled by a brown bear.
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Makes sense.
 
beeinak said:
He is considered a joke by many seasoned outdoorsmen up here. Too many people have no real experience around bears and mistake behaviors. If a brown bear is intent on killing you, a ‘mag dump’ is most likely not going to happen. Shooting at a bear because you are scared is not the same as defending yourself from a threat, and unfortunately some folks don’t know the difference.

One problem when looking at DLP shooting of bears here is that some guy defending his chicken coop from a black bear is thrown into the same data as a person being actively mauled by a brown bear.
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It’s also how they came up with the skewed data/impression on the efficacy of bear spray.

World of a difference between deterring curious bears, vs stopping an attacking bear.
 
Jabrni said:
Makes sense.
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There are constant ongoing discussions about the right ‘bear gun’ and ammo. Guides who may have to shoot farther distances to shoot a wounded bear, or may have to go into thick alders tend to like certain calibers vs guys who carry simply for protection. My .500 S&W felt very inadequate when I stumbled onto a fresh moose kill in tall brush, and could smell the bear but not see it. That said, a 12 gauge or .458 Win mag left leaning on a tree is not going to help much.

12 gauge quality slugs are potent and most folks can learn to quickly operate a reliable pump gun, so it is a common choice for protection by citizens and officers.

10mm gets lots of talk as it is a nice round, and offered in some popular models. Some pistols do not cycle well with heavy loads, so practicing with what will be carried is paramount.

One thing I like about double-action revolvers, is that if there is a misfire, you simply pull the trigger again. They also function if something is pressing against the barrel. It takes a lot of training/practice to clear a round/rack a slide under stress.

A perfect example happened last year when hunters were surprised by a brown bear attack and one guy drew his 10mm and fired as he got attacked. He was knocked down (shot once through his leg while firing off his back at the bear) and has a misfire, but was trained well and able to rack the slide and stay in the fight. Pretty amazing story, that I think speaks volumes to his skill and tenacity more than the round.

Some fatal mauling’s on very experienced outdoorsmen who were carrying guns have happened. Some have gotten none, or a couple of rounds off. A very experienced guide I know was knocked down and stood over by a big brown bear- he never had time to get his rifle un-slung. The bear simply scared the crap out of him (literally), and then left. A terrible mauling victim I had as a patient said it happened so fast he never would have gotten a round off.

Personally, I feel people should carry what they shoot well with quality constructed rounds, be aware of surroundings, and enjoy the outdoors.

Rant over🤣
 
Hiking kit for the day. Didn’t run into any animals, 2 or 4 legged.

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Regarding bear defense or bear guns (specifically grizzlies)I recommend watching the YouTube video below.


If a grizzly charges at close range, you'll be lucky to get one or two shots on target.

In my opinion, 10mm is the best "on body" carry option for a few reasons:

1. Recoil - 10mm bear loads have much less recoil than 44 magnum. This matters for follow-up shots, but more importantly, it matters for practice.

In my experience people don't enjoy shooting 44 mag because of the stout recoil, especially with bear loads. To be ready for a worst case bear attack you'll need to practice quite a bit.

2. Ammo Capacity - If a bear charges at close range you'll probably only get one or two shots on target. Then why does ammo capacity matter?

In high stress situations, there's significant evidence that shows some people fire until they're dry or mag dump. In my opinion, 15 to 21 rounds of 10mm (depending on the firearm) beats 6 rounds of 44 due to the potential for critical/immobilizing hits.

3. Weight - I agree that a 12 gauge with slugs would be ideal, but they're heavy. If something is heavy and uncomfortable to carry, people will generally rationalize why they don't need to carry it. Some revolvers can fall into this same category.

4. Speed/Maneuverability - A 12 gauge is slower to bring on target and fire than a handgun. A heavy revolver with a long barrel in 44 mag is slower than a polymer pistol in this same regard. If the 44 mag has a short barrel recoil will increase (see item 1 in this list).

5. Target Size - I'm referring to the size of the bear. Chances are that you're not going to encounter anything that's 700+ pounds unless you're in very specific parts of the country. If you're in kodiak country, you arm yourself accordingly (we're talking big guns).

Male grizzlies are somewhere around 200 to 700 pounds, females are around 200 to 400 pounds. The odds are against you running into the upper ends of these ranges.

A 200 to 210 grain hardcast 10mm bear round with decent placement is going to be a very strong deterrent in most cases.
 
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