Carpenter CTS-XHP Steel AKA "Micro-Melt® 440-XH® Alloy"

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Dude where'd you get the orange manix? Maybe I haven't been to the spyderco forum often enough cuz I don't remember that run?
 
That's great news!!! And yes we all know how much you love those M2's FlaMtnBkr :D IF you ever decide to sell a blue sprint give me a shout please.
 
Just want to add that Jim Stewart did a sprint run of woodland specials in this steel and it supposedly got good reviews from users.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Why isn't it technically stainless? It has sufficient chrome to be technically stainless.

What's seems to be unique about the steel is that it is the first powdered stainless D2. Now I'm told it's not stainless? :confused:

sal
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Should be stainless, but I think someone posted pics of a proto Barkie with a patina.
 
Dozier said he feels it's "440C on steroids". Isn't 154cm-ATS34 440C "on steroids"? Unless that means it's more rust resistant than 154cm, as well as having the higher rockwell, and edge holding capabilities..
 
I think he meant that it has enough chromium to be in the stainless category I've heard people say "it's more stain resistant than D2" but perhaps not completely stain proof as stated above.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Why isn't it technically stainless? It has sufficient chrome to be technically stainless.

What's seems to be unique about the steel is that it is the first powdered stainless D2. Now I'm told it's not stainless? :confused:

sal
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Sal,

I am far from an expert and my info maybe suspect as it was a casual conversation with Brian. Also the purpose of my call was on behalf of a client that is interested in this stuff (see my post in the knife makers forum--Shop Talk--) for industrial use.

But I am fairly sure, as in pretty darn certain, he said it isnt a true stainless.

I guess my question would be what would make a steel "true stainless"???

But a simple call to him should clear it up. I wont call him cause I dont want to be a pain...
 
hardheart said:
He put a lot of work into the testing, but it has not been verified. There was a fairly large discrepancy between the results of two test runs on one knife, and the others have not been retested.
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Please!

I retest first knife I tested, because I thought that first time I was not very experienced. And as I suspected that result was better then when I did it first time. Noe you making big deal out of it like all my results are unstable!

After that I tested three times same knife and have same results all the time, and it was reported here - hard to believe that you do not know about that.

Now there is no other people who do knife testing and report results. Even I cry for this for all time I do this testing. It is hard work, much harder then typing...

As well as there is no verification for any statment anybody here came up with about let say CPM S90V or other steel. CPM S90V shows average results on my tests, same BTW as CPM 10V I tested year ago, which is expected as CPM S90V is stainless version of CPM 10V.

Now we have superperforming made in US steel micromelted 440XH which beat up every other steels and only behind Dozier D2.

Somehow seems it is only me who excited about that we have excellent production steel made in US possibly less expensive then CPM steels which outperform any production steel on the market so far.

This allow even US companies which lazy to get ZDP189 or CPM S90V, to make top cutting knives now.

There is people who trust my tests - after my finding on CTS-XHP performance, demand increased and Spyderco expanded Manix II run (hitting market right now BTW).

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. Go ahead - verify it yourself! I described my tests in detail, why do not you retest it yourself. Or do any other testing you like. Why not?
 
willworship said:
The Sept 2010 issue of Tactical Knives has an article about it. They quote Bob Dozier as saying, "It's 440C on steroids." He is apparently using it for some of his knives. I trust his opinion.

A customer of Bob's used one of his knives in CTS-XHP versus a S30V blade:

"'When compared to a new knife with an S30V blade, which cut through .5-inch manila rope at maximum of 200 times before the edge began to fail; an XHP blade with identical edge geometry was able to make 850 cuts. Obviously, the XHP blade possessed greater cutting endurance.'"

That is not a comparison with S90V, but it does give some credibility to the claim that it is a good, edge-holding steel.
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Can you please, give link to that results?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
Please!

I retest first knife I tested, because I thought that first time I was not very experienced. And as I suspected that result was better then when I did it first time. Noe you making big deal out of it like all my results are unstable!

After that I tested three times same knife and have same results all the time, and it was reported here - hard to believe that you do not know about that.
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I know this. What did I post that was untrue? You retested one knife, there was a large change in results (8 places until you tested more steels) and you have not retested any others from the beginning. As you suspected, the result was better. Why did you not retest the second, third, or fourth knives to see these better results repeated? Would you not expect better results for all of the first group you used?

That's the issue, we don't know where the others would place with the same treatment. Do we just automatically bump up the first ten or twelve tested steels eight notches because that's what happened to the Yuna? Where would Dozier D2 and XHP, or any other tested steel, sit in the rankings?
 
RevDevil said:
CTS - Carpenter Steel is new to making knife steel but not to forging in general. that would be my guess why. The only other knife maker I've heard of that uses it is Rick Hinderer. I agree with Yablanowitz:
You've been hoodwinked, lied to, bamboozled, run amuck.
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Shirley, you jest. Carpenter has been a prime source of 440C for years.

Carpenter likens the material to "stainless D2".
 
as with all the new intros we will know the facts a few months down the road.the test i read in blade or tact. knives was written by a man whose veracity has been of strong suspect for much of his reports.i strongly suspect that this alloy will make 800 cuts in manila rope.the alloy info [ according to gator] certainly doe'nt indicate this type performance is possible, however specs do'nt always show real life results.vassilli hit the dog on the head when he stated "it's much harder to do tests than it is to type". i'm chagrined that only a small amount of formites actually do any real cutting tests. many only do criticism of tests but no work themselves.sorry i'm verring-- i will be amazed to see an stock removal blade that performs with a busse or ed fowler.dennis
 
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I like to believe that the tests are right but I'm personally uncertain now because so many other members here seem dubious. Even if it's not exactly #2 it has still been rated very highly by many people. And thanks for those tests Vassili because they are the most solid thing that I've found to date about this alloy and I'm sure they took a great deal of time to complete.
Best,
Gabriel.
 
Hi Gabriel,

I think that he meant that it is not a "true" stainless in that in "can" corrode, as all stainless steels.

I have been working with Rick Gkeixner at Carpenter for more than a year. We did most of the early testing for Carpenter in developing their new knife steels.

XHP tsted very well and that's why we're using it. I believe we were the first to come out with a production piece and we've got more planned for the future.

In our testing, XHP did not test as well in abrasion resistance as S30V, but it did test very well. As I mentioned, lab tests are good, but real world tests are also good.

sal
 


Bark River Knives - Woodland Special - XHP Prototype. :thumbup: :cool: :thumbup:



This knife keeps cutting long after the edge feels dull to the touch,

...and I find it much easier to sharpen then D2 or CPM S30V.





I think this steel will prove very popular. :D





Big Mike
 
I'm all for a stainless D2. My body is more acidic and makes D2 look real ugly fast!
 
hardheart said:
I know this. What did I post that was untrue? You retested one knife, there was a large change in results (8 places until you tested more steels) and you have not retested any others from the beginning. As you suspected, the result was better. Why did you not retest the second, third, or fourth knives to see these better results repeated? Would you not expect better results for all of the first group you used?

That's the issue, we don't know where the others would place with the same treatment. Do we just automatically bump up the first ten or twelve tested steels eight notches because that's what happened to the Yuna? Where would Dozier D2 and XHP, or any other tested steel, sit in the rankings?
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You problem is that you totally depends on me doing or not doing this tests. I honestly provides all info I got. But it is me to decide will or will not I do retesting. First time was. well - first time, it is more or less try this or that. Of course it is different then established process I have now.

It is not true that all results are unstable because first is different them 30th. Now to clear that I did special retesting three times for new knife and results were stable and recently for another one. I can say that results is stable.

May be not only first but second and third result less stable. But I as a test conductor decide that difference will not be huge and rather test new steel then old with average results which I do not care too much.

However you and everybody else are welcome to do your own testing! Retest whatever you want!

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. And then I will be telling you - "You should do this hundred times more and only when full moon rise - then may be I will take it into account..."
 
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