Carry Laws in NYC

Does this BS apply across NY state or just that shithole of a city?

Funny that as a Canadian I feel pity for you guys down south in this case.
 
mlehto said:
Does this BS apply across NY state or just that shithole of a city?

Funny that as a Canadian I feel pity for you guys down south in this case.
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its just in NYC , where there are no state exemption laws in NYS
 
mlehto said:
Does this BS apply across NY state or just that shithole of a city?

Funny that as a Canadian I feel pity for you guys down south in this case.
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Save your sympathy, Canadian. You are talking about my home town, I lived most of my life there, it has a lot longer history than the Bloomberg / Vance era, and a lot more to do than carry knives.
 
I'm just surprised you CAN carry concealed fixed blades in NYC! That's a felony in CA!

Seems like that would be the way to go for EDC.:thumbup:

--Don't you just love all these made up (non) crimes?:grumpy:
 
JCaswell said:
I'm just surprised you CAN carry concealed fixed blades in NYC! That's a felony in CA!

--Don't you just love all these made up (non) crimes?:grumpy:
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It's almost a scam. People come to NYC thinking they are obeying the law by open carrying their knives and NYPD hauls them in. Isn't it obvious the right response would be to let them know what the law is in the big city or even tell them to leave their so-called gravity knife at the hotel till they go home?

Or maybe hang a big sign at the edge of town: "No Tourists Welcome!"
 
Esav Benyamin said:
It's almost a scam. People come to NYC thinking they are obeying the law by open carrying their knives and NYPD hauls them in. Isn't it obvious the right response would be to let them know what the law is in the big city or even tell them to leave their so-called gravity knife at the hotel till they go home?

Or maybe hang a big sign at the edge of town: "No Tourists Welcome!"
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It is a sleazy scam, of course, but it's worse than that!
... to saddle people with criminal records for these non-crimes is an immoral perversion of law---the kind of thing that makes good people loath and despise law and it's ministers. Bad public policy all round.
 
JCaswell said:
It is a sleazy scam, of course, but it's worse than that!
... to saddle people with criminal records for these non-crimes is an immoral perversion of law---the kind of thing that makes good people loath and despise law and it's ministers. Bad public policy all round.
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Joe, that certainly nails the serious societal and personal issues such abusive policies create. Unfortunately, an arrogant and politically motivated DA combined with a police force that cannot see the forest for the trees and is happy to rack up arrests for their record ensures that neither of these groups care. The question is, what are you and everyone else here doing to fight back against this assault on our civil rights and abuse of power?

Knife Rights believes the best defense is a good offense, thus we have filed suit against NYC and the DA. Elsewhere in the country, we pursue legislative solutions proactively, so that the opportunity for this kind of abuse is made far less likely. But we cannot do it without support from knife owners. Our freedom is not free. It costs gobs of money to fight for our freedoms. Help us fight with a cash donation, monthly pledge, or in the case of a knifemaker, donate a knife for next year's major fundraiser, the 2013 Ultimate Steel™ Knives, Guns and More Spectacular!

This is an especially good time to donate because a generous Knife Rights supporter has issued a Matching Challenge that DOUBLES the VALUE of YOUR DONATION! He will match, dollar for dollar, every dollar we raise between now and the end of the year. Give $25 - We get $50! Give $50 - We get $100! Give $100 - We get $200! Give $500 - We get $1,000! Give $10,000 - We get $20,000! All the way up to $50,000 in matching funds! DONATE by December 31, 2012, and You might ALSO WIN one of a number of VALUABLE PRIZES including a Kimber pistol and SOG and TOPS knives! More information and donation information can be found at: http://bit.ly/XajeUV

We need your help now more than ever. Help Knife Rights create a Sharper Future for all Americans!™
 
That's why I'm a member of Knife Rights---:thumbup:

In fact that reminds me, it's about time to renew?:confused:
(You guys really do a great job, but may I suggest that you really need to set up a macro or something to notify members when it's time to renew--like this and other forums do. I have no idea when my membership lapses and only get to it when talking with you at a show ...) I know you guys are busy, but lapsed memberships are money left on the table.:eek:)
 
JCaswell said:
That's why I'm a member of Knife Rights---:thumbup:

In fact that reminds me, it's about time to renew?:confused:
(You guys really do a great job, but may I suggest that you really need to set up a macro or something to notify members when it's time to renew--like this and other forums do. I have no idea when my membership lapses and only get to it when talking with you at a show ...) I know you guys are busy, but lapsed memberships are money left on the table.:eek:)
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Thanks! I am acutely aware of the renewal issue. :( There is a bug in our software and we have been trying to get it to work reliably and correctly for some time now. The software is essentially obsolete and really needs replacing and we've been trying to figure out how best to do it with limited resources. Vicious circle and all that. Be assured, it is a priority, and very frustrating.
 
Well, I went ahead and renewed online.

Easy to do when it's right in front of you!
I can imagine an email with a nice big button in the middle saying "renew now!"
That'd be pretty cool.
 
Here is a little bit of NYC info that I just learned of myself. I did NOT see this with my own eyes but three officers have now told me they heard of this too. The NYPD has small cards that fit into the summons book for use as quick reference for many common laws that a summons maybe written for. They state the section of the law for use on the summons and a short detail of what the law is. There was a mis print on one batch of these cards that said the overall lenght of a knife open can't be more than 4" instead of the blade must not be over 4" ( the real wording of the law)....I am not sure this resulted in any arrests but I hope this was corrected by an directive from the NYPD Legal Division to correct this mis information....
 
tom19176 said:
Here is a little bit of NYC info that I just learned of myself. I did NOT see this with my own eyes but three officers have now told me they heard of this too. The NYPD has small cards that fit into the summons book for use as quick reference for many common laws that a summons maybe written for. They state the section of the law for use on the summons and a short detail of what the law is. There was a mis print on one batch of these cards that said the overall lenght of a knife open can't be more than 4" instead of the blade must not be over 4" ( the real wording of the law)....I am not sure this resulted in any arrests but I hope this was corrected by an directive from the NYPD Legal Division to correct this mis information....
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Outlawing knives that can be opened with 'centrifugal force' seems to ensnare just about all of them (including SAKs) because they can ALL be opened by centrifugal force one way or another.

Getting the law wrong on over-all-length is bad and all, but arresting people with standard pocket knives by identifying them as "gravity knives" is more ridiculous, IMO.
 
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JCaswell said:
Outlawing knives that can be opened with 'centrifugal force' seems to ensnare just about all of them (including SAKs) because they can ALL be opened by centrifugal force one way or another.

Getting the law wrong on over-all-length is bad and all, but arresting people with standard pocket knives by identifying them as "gravity knives" is more ridiculous, IMO.
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Actually, that is not correct, sorry. This misunderstanding of the physics involved in the "wrist flick" is likely at the root of much of this abuse of the law. A true gravity knife will, indeed, open by centrifugal force alone. A common folding knife with a bias towards closure will not open by centrifugal force alone.
 
My understanding is they are testing knives by holding the BLADE and whipping the knife so it opens. You should be able to open most typical (modern) folding knives that way.

As you know, the code defines a “gravity knife” as “any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.” (P.L. §265.00(5).

Not sure how centrifugal force is to be applied for the purposes of this code, but lacking actual guidance from the code, you could make an argument for the outrageous "hold-the-balde" method--or any other unusual method for applying centrifugal force.
Technically, given enough centrifugal force--especially in conjunction with a sudden stop--- you should be able to open anything, even if you had to build an apparatus to do it.

You might well say, " ... that would never fly because common sense would take over and the law would be interpreted to mean centrifugal force [exerted by hand] despite lack of explicit guidance on that point."
But one must ask, " ... centrifugal force exerted by who/what? The 90-pound lady knife owner?, the body-building officer (or anyone on the force they can get to the scene) with the knack for whipping knives open? Any theoretical human or device?)---" and "centrifugal force exerted how? --- holding the handle? the blade? Holding the end of the handle and forcefully whacking the spine against a pole so the blade pops out?"
I'm not sure why "common sense" would take over to curtail any of that when you already have officers (reportedly) holding the BLADE and using the amplified inertia provided by the mass of the knife's handle to whip it open and calling it a gravity knife. This seems easily as egregious an abuse of "common sense" with regard to how centrifugal force is to be applied for the purpose of §265.00(5).



***BTW, I see it has to be a LOCKING folder to qualify as a "gravity knife", which would exempt SAKs***
 
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Yes it must lock and many miss that point. There are a few locking knives that can not be flicked open, but they are rare. The "hold the blade" and flicking the handle became poplular with the "Spidie Drop" method becoming popular. Many judges do not honor the holding of the blade, but some do. The real issue to me, is that case law, and I believe Appelate Court findings seem to have upheld the flicking method of opening the knife to be a fit for the wording of the law. This is a problem, since these court rulings are made to set a clear path for police and courts to work with and so far that has not gone in a good way for knife owners/users.....I hope Doug group will be successful...There is no real test for how much it takes to actually flick a knife open, and those well built officers are allowed several trys to open it in court when needed....
 
tom19176 said:
... There is no real test for how much it takes to actually flick a knife open, and those well built officers are allowed several trys to open it in court when needed....
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This reminds me of the test for the measure of a blade's length which we hear of from time to time. Lay the blade across the fingers and if it exceeds 4 fingers, it's illegal. Whose fingers? Mine or my daughter's? :)

My understanding used to be that a gravity knife had no detent -- pushing the lock aside / pushing in the button would allow the blade to drop free and slide into locked position. From a turn of the wrist to point the blade down so it could slide out of the handle, we now have a violent motion that can fling the knife out of the hand.

Don't they look ridiculous?
 
After much research, deliberation and conversation, I've decided to make my EDC a Spyderco Terzoula. It has no lock, a ball-joint, non-locking system and is a 3" blade. I figure this is as safe as I can get in NYC with a good EDC. The rest of my Spydies will remain at home until I travel outside the city.
 
I actually tighten the pivot screws when I head into NYC. I ran into an issue with a Gerber Gator I picked up at the PX before coming home. I went into the courthouse to pay a traffic ticket and when I put the knife in the bin, the officer picked it up and flicked it out. Since it was a "gravity" knife, he confiscated it. I was in the city and a cop saw the same kind of knife on my belt in a sheath and he asked to see the knife. He couldn't flick it out because the pivot was tight. So he gave it back, and sent me on my way. Tighten those pivots in NYC!
 
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