Case CV or Queen D2

Not to seem rude there, but it is more difficult to sharpen D2.
Personaly, when I sharpen knives I prefer to take the "least" metal off the blade as possible. The diamond sharpeners are great (for a "quick" edge), but I would rather take the time to get a good edge, than take more metal off. For those who are more proficient at sharpening, they can make a blade last a lifetime (rather than number its years). I use a strop, assorted stones. Many of my knives, you can hardly tell they've been sharpened, but they have a good edge! Ive been making, collecting knives, for over 23 years. It takes time and experience to help your knives last.
 
I really like my Queen Classic Splitback Whittler in D2. The F&F are top notch and the blades get sharp and stay that way for a long time.

Bill from Cumberland is a great guy to deal with, nothing but the best experience with him.
 
Only saw the title, and haven't read any of the post. I've never used any of Queen's D2 steel so can't vouch for it or against it. I currently carry a CV steel Case Canoe that cuts like crazy. I love the way it takes an edge and I'm the type to come in at night and hit a couple licks on my Spyderco 204 if I've used it much that day. Keeps it nice and sharp and ready to go. Only problem will be the rustability oc the CV steel and I went ahead and stuck both blades into a lemon and let it sit for several hours......got a nice mottled look to it now!
 
rev_jch said:
...it is more difficult to sharpen D2.
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It is more difficult to machine it, but you don't have to remove a lot of metal when sharpening so this isn't really an issue. I have many very hard high alloy knives, M2, D2, 10V, they all sharpen very easily as they are ground so as to allow it.

Personaly, when I sharpen knives I prefer to take the "least" metal off the blade as possible.
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With that viewpoint sharpening doesn't depend on machinability much at all, unless you are damaging the edge is use which is more of a case of unsuitable steel for the task at hand.

The diamond sharpeners are great (for a "quick" edge), but I would rather take the time to get a good edge, than take more metal off.
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There are very fine diamond abrasives, they actually get finer than any benchstone and can reach sub-micron grit size.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, it takes a lot to sharpen queen d2 because queen puts an obtuse edge on the blade. You have to hog a lot of steel off the blade just to get to a 40 degree angle. Queen d2 steel plus the queen edge makes sharpmaker owners cry.
 
Yeah, that is a horrible combination, a decent SiC waterstone will solve that edge profile issue in a few minutes though.

-Cliff
 
Why bother when there is no advantage? I have both Queen D2 knives and Case CV knives and prefer the Case knives hands down.

Most case knives need a bit of edge tuning, and you have to buy them in person or from a site that will inspect as fit and finish varies quite a bit.

For the stuff I use a slip joint for, D2 offers no advantage over CV (which is just jazzed up 1095).
 
I'm looking for a Case amber bone medium stockman myself, I may already have one, from what some members tell me. But, just for the resale value if you get tired of it, and the superior quality, I would go with the Queen.
 
knifetester said:
Why bother when there is no advantage?
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Are the blades of similar hardness? If so then for a wood whittler, I'd pick the CV. If the D2 is significantly harder then I would pick that. There seems to be some reports of much greater edge retention with the D2 blades.

-Cliff
 
Queen ain't treating their D2 like Phil Wilson would! I have not seen specs, but I would guess they are running it around 58-59RC at the most. It feel the same as Ontario runs their D2 on the RAT line.

It is not optimal, that is for sure.

If the D2 is significantly harder then I would pick that.
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Yeah, if Queen would spec out their D2 to 63-64RC or simliar, then I would readily choose it for the added strength and the added wear resistance would just be incidental. I would take it to the belt grinder and really thin it out (like under 10 degree per side) then just run a 15 degree microbevel from the Sharpmaker. The edge retention, ease of sharpening and cutting ability would fall into place.

Anyone know who the "PH" is that does there Heat Treat?

Alas, that is not the case. . . .
Ican get a crisper edge from my Case CV than my Queen D2. . .

As an aside, I would take a simple Schrade 1095 knife over the Queen and have plenty of $$ left over to take the wife out to a movie.
 
knifetester said:
...a crisper edge from my Case CV than my Queen D2. . .
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Have you talked to anyone at Queen about this, or have you seen it in more than one knife?

-Cliff
 
I have owned, currently and in the past, three Queen D2 knives. A Stockman, a Canoe and a fixed blade. All were similiar.

I probably could get as fine an edge, just as crisp and highly polished on the D2 if I put enough effort into it. But agin, no reason for me to do so, my Case CV knives handle those tasks about as well as I could ask. Sure, if I could order them harder and more acutely ground I would. As well, I could just have them re-treated, or order a knife from a custom maker.

But there is a diminishing rate of return in performance/expenditure. No need for me to spend the time or money getting the knives to maybe improve performance a minute bit, when they all ready do the jobs I need quite well.

Yes, that is heresy coming from a performance junkie. I admire how Thom had Krien do his Benchmade Nim Cub, or your U2. But for this application, a string cutter, apple slicer and wood whittler, plain old Case CV does the job just fine. Sharpens up easy, holds an edge well enough and feels right. there is something about "feels right" you can't quantify or otherwise measure. But you know it when you got it.
 
knifetester said:
I have owned, currently and in the past, three Queen D2 knives. A Stockman, a Canoe and a fixed blade. All were similiar.
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The reason I ask is I have been hearing very strong reports about Queen's D2, in terms of ease of sharpening and edge holding. With production knives you always wonder about variation, someone gets a blade a little soft and another gets one a little hard and they have vastly different opinions. Three in a row would give you reasonable confidence on the performance however.

By the way in terms of case's CV, Alvin has constant praise for that steel.

-Cliff
 
I have owned about 12 Queen D2 folders, some I later sold because I didn't like that particular pattern, but none for quality reasons.

All of mine came razor sharp out of the box, with the exception of 1 that I bought second hand. It was supposed to be "new unused", but it was the only one I have had that was not razor sharp when I got it, so I can't be sure it was the factory edge.

I had to learn to sharpen D2, it does take some effort and in my experience if it gets very dull you need diamond hones.

The trick to D2 for me has been the same as some of the high grade stainless knives, that is touch them up and never let them get really dull. I touch up D2 on ceramic sticks at the first signs for not shaving hair on my arm cleanly and that seems to do fine.
 
With steels that are hard to machine you need to be sharpening with a micro-bevel. It is always best to do this regardless of any steel, but with the low machinability ones it is critical.

Do the primary edge sharping on a really coarse hone, use at least 220 SiC, and add some lapping compound (80 grit SiC) to improve it more. This will allow you to take out chips, and even reset the bevels in just a few minutes.

Now increase the honing angle to set the actual edge. This takes just a few passes per side so is a minute or two. Now when sharpening you just work the micro bevel which sharpens fast as it is only a fraction of a mm wide.

In time the micro bevel will thicken, after some time you will see it, then you just cut it off with the x-coarse hone to raise speed of sharpening again.

-Cliff
 
Hi Knifetester;

Do you have an opinion on Case's current stainless steel (420)?


I have enjoyed reading yours (and everyone else's) comments...
 
By the way in terms of case's CV, Alvin has constant praise for that steel.
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That suprises me. I thought he replaced the baldes of his stockman folders with baldes he had ground from Brownell 1095 and 01, and given his special deep freeze (next to the frozen pizza) cryo treatment.

Case CV is good steel. For what your standards slip joint whittling knife does, it works very well.

My comments of Queen D2 is based on a really small sample, from when they first started making D2 knives (like 3 years ago). There is a good chance they have improved their heat treat. My view is based on my own uses, where the wear resistance of D2 is not an advantage at all and is usually a hinderance.

As well, corrosion resistance means nothing to me for this application, but for some it si important, so choosing D2 for them would be a good choice. As well, someone that uses there Slipjoint to cut open canvas fertilizer sacks, bails of hay and such D2 would be a better choice. Sine I use my Slip joints for pretty much push cutting on wood and stuff, there is not real advantage for me.

I convex the edges on my slip joints using a drywall pad. Then I add a microbevel at 15 degrees to fine ceramic, then strop very lightly on charged leather (Lee Valley Veritas). Gives me a great edge for wood work, easy to touch up too.

I have not tried Cold Steel's new slip joints in Carbon V, but a friend told me they perform about identical to Case knives.

Like you have written in previous posts, there are no bad steels, it is just a matter of matching the steel to the application.
 
knifetester said:
That suprises me. I thought he replaced the baldes of his stockman folders with baldes he had ground from Brownell 1095 and 01, and given his special deep freeze (next to the frozen pizza) cryo treatment.
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He usually does, he is usually comparing it to stainless and talking about what would be better for someone who has to use the choices available. His steels rehardened make better blades, but not everyone can do that. Ideally he would run finishing steels, full hard. I don't think he found any to actually use yet though.

Interesting comments on the wood work, the japanese feel pretty similar, there wood working blades tend to be fairly low alloy and ran very hard. They pride a high initial sharpness and the ability to hold that very crisp edge for a long period of time.

I would likely take D2 at 62 vs CV at 58 for a wood cutting blade, but both at the same hardness, then probably CV for reasons you noted. You could get the D2 rehardened, but then you could push the CV steel higher still anyway.

-Cliff
 
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