Case told David Yellowhorse he couldn't customize their knives anymore

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Penny Annie move by Case and the others mentioned in the this thread! This is as Bad as the University of Florida going after HS with Gator Mascots!
 
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The supply of custom 1911s would dry up too. Gunsmiths would no longer be able to use Colts and Springfields.
 
I'm a fan of Case and have quite a few of them but actions like this are something that could drive me away because I think they have bigger issues than this to worry about. I usually have to order knives and when I order a Case, I'm prepared to send it in to get fixed before I even get it. It's not every time, but enough. That being said, they should worry about the condition they leave their factory, not what a craftsman like Yellowhorse does to them...
 
For those who don't click on the 1st page, I'll repeat that I think Case's decision is misguided and counterproductive.

r redden said:
IMO the above article is an interpretation of law and could not only be argued in court but is a real stretch in this case. What Yellowhorse is doing is simply modifying a knife to be more desirable and then charging the end consumer for his work. It could be argued that he is selling his modification and simply supplying the knife to the customer. If this ridiculous demand were to be upheld it's implications could potentially stop all knife modders dead in their tracks and if the consumer sent a knife to the modder would they be found in conspiracy? And we will take it a bit farther does this apply to automobiles. If a car has parts replaced either mechanical or cosmetic with aftermarket parts or repainted a different color is it illegal then to sell it? I absolutely believe that Case is grasping at straws and money is the reward trying find a way to profit more than the sell of the knife through the customizing work of Yellowhorse. This could go on and on in different products we like to change even our homes could a builder sue over the change of color or flooring materials then resold. IMO the argument of the above article is week at best.
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I posted a link to the article as a reference because a dominant idea in this discussion is over simplified and inaccurate. For example, "Once their product leaves the factory, they have no say on what the owner does with it."

It's a lot more complicated. I'm not a lawyer and I don't have an interest in discussing the law and it's not really well suited for this forum. But I don't think it makes sense to make arguments about the law without actual references to the law.

I don't like Case's decision. If I collected Yellowhorse knives, I'd write Case a polite letter about why it is not in their best interest to stop Yellowhorse.
 
I imagine that if Tom Krein or Esnyx did Case regrinds etc, they'd probably get a notice too. Case, if anything, should be sending knives to David to customize, and then selling them to their dealers.
 
supratentorial said:
For those who don't click on the 1st page, I'll repeat that I think Case's decision is misguided and counterproductive.

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I don't like Case's decision. If I collected Yellowhorse knives, I'd write Case a polite letter about why it is not in their best interest to stop Yellowhorse.
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agreed, apologies if my previous comment seemed to be instigating trouble. i dont have many Yellowhorse knives, or case knives for that matter but I just saw it as a company attacking an enterprising individual who was offering a niche service to a select bunch of collectors.
 
mrknife said:
agreed, apologies if my previous comment seemed to be instigating trouble. i dont have many Yellowhorse knives, or case knives for that matter but I just saw it as a company attacking an enterprising individual who was offering a niche service to a select bunch of collectors.
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Not at all. No worries.

Case does have some sort of relationship with Linda Karst. I don't know the details though.
 
There's an interesting thread about this from 2013 from the engraverscafe forum titled "Here is a lawsuit CASE XX filed for doing custom scrimshaw on their knives" if anyone is interested. Apparently Case/Zippo has been doing this for awhile.
 
Scott321 said:
There's an interesting thread about this from 2013 from the engraverscafe forum titled "Here is a lawsuit CASE XX filed for doing custom scrimshaw on their knives" if anyone is interested. Apparently Case/Zippo has been doing this for awhile.
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It appears to be an engraver forum discussion about a discussion on a knife forum and the knife forum appears to be no longer in service. Unfortunately, the letter from Case was not in the link. But this bit from Zippo was quoted:

"engraving of Zippo lighters and sales of Zippo lighters that have been engraved, decorated or otherwise altered without ZMC’s consent, infringe it’s trademark rights. Specifically, the alteration, decoration, engraving and sale of Zippo lighters, using images and designs that have not been authorized by ZMC, directly infringes Zippo’s trademark rights."

If I understand correctly, it was an excerpt from a letter sent to an engraver.
 
Here is the problem: "Yellowhorse Case Products" or "You are viewing a Case Wharncliff Trapper by Brian Yellowhorse."

If someone uses your brand you can do one of three things: 1) give up your property rights to your brand; 2) license the use of your brand (can be for nominal consideration - such as $.01); 3) enforce your property rights.

Anyone can work on your Chevy to customize it, but it cannot be a product line sold to end users as (for example) a "Fire Ball Chevy" unless your want to deal with the legalities.
 
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I own quite a few Case knives, the only knives I have more of are SAKs. Never purchased a Yellowhorse knife because they are kinda gaudy and just not my taste. Great work, just no me. That said I don't understand why Case would care. their knives have been re-handled by many people. People customize and re-sell lots of things.
 
Not an IP lawyer, but I suspect this is mostly lawyers just being lawyers. I know there is case law out there with respect to trademarks which require you to not "sleep" on your trademark, and continually monitor and protect it, lest it be weakened, unenforceable, or certain remedies lost in the event real infringements were to begin happening. In other words, I don't think Case really means to sue or even stop customization in most instances. The law just puts it in a position of having to document its files and continue to posture as such. If it was really threatened, or felt real damage was being done, it would just sue. I don't know of any requirement that you give warnings first. Still, if you're D.Yellowhorse, you probably don't want to test it.
 
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NMpops said:
I own quite a few Case knives, the only knives I have more of are SAKs. Never purchased a Yellowhorse knife because they are kinda gaudy and just not my taste. Great work, just no me. That said I don't understand why Case would care. their knives have been re-handled by many people. People customize and re-sell lots of things.
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Here is the problem: "Yellowhorse Case Products" or "You are viewing a Case Wharncliff Trapper by Brian Yellowhorse."

If someone uses your brand you can do one of three things: 1) give up your property rights to your brand; 2) license the use of your brand (can be for nominal consideration - such as $.01); 3) enforce your property rights.

Anyone can work on your Chevy to customize it, but it cannot be a product line sold to end users as (for example) a "Fire Ball Chevy" unless your want to deal with the legalities.
 
supratentorial said:
For those who don't click on the 1st page, I'll repeat that I think Case's decision is misguided and counterproductive.



I posted a link to the article as a reference because a dominant idea in this discussion is over simplified and inaccurate. For example, "Once their product leaves the factory, they have no say on what the owner does with it."

It's a lot more complicated. I'm not a lawyer and I don't have an interest in discussing the law and it's not really well suited for this forum. But I don't think it makes sense to make arguments about the law without actual references to the law .

I don't like Case's decision. If I collected Yellowhorse knives, I'd write Case a polite letter about why it is not in their best interest to stop Yellowhorse.
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Thomas Linton said:
Here is the problem: "Yellowhorse Case Products" or "You are viewing a Case Wharncliff Trapper by Brian Yellowhorse."

If someone uses your brand you can do one of three things: 1) give up your property rights to your brand; 2) license the use of your brand (can be for nominal consideration - such as $.01); 3) enforce your property rights.

Anyone can work on your Chevy to customize it, but it cannot be a product line sold to end users as (for example) a "Fire Ball Chevy" unless your want to deal with the legalities.
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I seemed to have ruffled some feathers with my post and that wasn't my intention just stating my opinion but I deleted it rather than offend anyone else. Sorry guys I'm out of this thread.
 
r redden said:
I seemed to have ruffled some feathers with my post and that wasn't my intention just stating my opinion but I deleted it rather than offend anyone else. Sorry guys I'm out of this thread.
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No feathers ruffled, Randy. And definitely no need to delete your post. No worries. My preface about those who miss the first page was not directed at you. Someone new to the discussion will likely miss my prior comment. It was just preventative medicine. And I tried to clarify why I posted the link.

I doubt Thomas is ruffled either. Iirc, he's a lawyer so he's just trying to help.

No worries!

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Photo intended just to lighten up the mood. :)
 
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From the number of products at Thomas' link, it appears that Yellowhorse is not really a small operation. How could he be if his stuff is stocked by multiple shops both on-line and brick and mortar.

It certainly appears from his marketing that he's giving the impression that his work is a Case product, which it is not. If I was Case I'd probably do something too.

It's not really fair to air only one side of the question. Why not contact Case if you care?
 
I have sent an email to Case. Waiting on a response. I am not out to bash Case, or Zippo. I just think they did a disservice to themselves.

If any Case reps are members here, and wish to respond they are more than free to do so. I do not know how it is one sided.
 
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