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Caswell Morphing Karambit on Kickstarter
- Thread starter Tommy-Chi
- Start date
The only other Karambit that I have is a 5.11 fixed blade. The 5.11 model was designed by Terani, a famous graduate of Bahala Na Escrima/Arnis Martial Arts club in Stockton, CA.
I look at Karambits as last ditch type weapons and require you to be extremely well trained. This blade here has all of the attributes of the fixed blade 5.11, and I do not expect it to fail when pressed in to service.
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- Feb 27, 2005
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Oh man I just backed it. Backer #298. Day three and it's already almost 700% funded.
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- Mar 12, 2006
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Hey guys!
Thanks for your interest in this design.
To all those backing it, I really appreciate the support, Thank you!
I don't mean to crash into the thread and mess up the discussion, but I notice a couple areas I may be able to clear up.
Material Selection:
7075 T-6 aluminum is the correct material for the handle portion.
This is determined by its physical properties alone.
7075 is roughly as strong as mild steel, yet much lighter than steel or titanium.
Treated with Type 3 hard anodize, it provides a genuine, reliable bearing surface, unlike titanium which is a terrible bearing surface and would require the inclusion of additional bushings in this application.
Titanium is “cool” but adds nothing but extra weight and complexity (need for bushings) in this particular application.
A steel handle section would be even heavier but without substantial benefit in strength compared with 7075 T-6 aluminum.
7075 with Type 3 hard anodize is the correct material for this particular part for precisely the same reasons it the correct materials for AR/M4 receivers.
CPM 3V offers some of the highest strength at high hardness conditions available. Much higher than many popular boutique stainless alloys.
Because of this, many associate it with larger, chopping blades. These same strength/hardness characteristics, however, make it an excellent choice for a small fine-edge blade with very pronounced point, such as a karambit, which can be expected to encounter high working loads in use.
The balance of the knife (“arm” components, locking member, etc) is 17-4 PH machined in the H900 condition (hard). This is a premium stainless alloy regarded for it’s strength and wear resistance. It is most often used in aerospace.
17-4 and CPM 3V parts feature Tungsten DLC coating by Ion Bond in Oregon. This is a best-available finish that offers hardness, lubricity and superior corrosion resistance.
Thanks for your interest in this design.
To all those backing it, I really appreciate the support, Thank you!
I don't mean to crash into the thread and mess up the discussion, but I notice a couple areas I may be able to clear up.
Material Selection:
7075 T-6 aluminum is the correct material for the handle portion.
This is determined by its physical properties alone.
7075 is roughly as strong as mild steel, yet much lighter than steel or titanium.
Treated with Type 3 hard anodize, it provides a genuine, reliable bearing surface, unlike titanium which is a terrible bearing surface and would require the inclusion of additional bushings in this application.
Titanium is “cool” but adds nothing but extra weight and complexity (need for bushings) in this particular application.
A steel handle section would be even heavier but without substantial benefit in strength compared with 7075 T-6 aluminum.
7075 with Type 3 hard anodize is the correct material for this particular part for precisely the same reasons it the correct materials for AR/M4 receivers.
CPM 3V offers some of the highest strength at high hardness conditions available. Much higher than many popular boutique stainless alloys.
Because of this, many associate it with larger, chopping blades. These same strength/hardness characteristics, however, make it an excellent choice for a small fine-edge blade with very pronounced point, such as a karambit, which can be expected to encounter high working loads in use.
The balance of the knife (“arm” components, locking member, etc) is 17-4 PH machined in the H900 condition (hard). This is a premium stainless alloy regarded for it’s strength and wear resistance. It is most often used in aerospace.
17-4 and CPM 3V parts feature Tungsten DLC coating by Ion Bond in Oregon. This is a best-available finish that offers hardness, lubricity and superior corrosion resistance.
Last edited:
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- Mar 12, 2006
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- 2,264
Another area is price.
Price is dictated entirely by costs.
This is a very expensive build. All the value is in the product.
This is a precision assembly, with parts machined from bar (not MiMed, stamped, etc), in premium materials and including best-available technical finish processes by a proven, world-class US builder.
Our margin, especially considering KS and CC fees (approximately 10%), is trimmed with some precision to offer this to backers at the same price a dealer would earn when purchasing a good number of units.
After KS, this knife will retail at $650. That figure is not marketing hype.
Anyway, I really appreciate everyones thoughts and support.
Backers, again ... Thank You
Price is dictated entirely by costs.
This is a very expensive build. All the value is in the product.
This is a precision assembly, with parts machined from bar (not MiMed, stamped, etc), in premium materials and including best-available technical finish processes by a proven, world-class US builder.
Our margin, especially considering KS and CC fees (approximately 10%), is trimmed with some precision to offer this to backers at the same price a dealer would earn when purchasing a good number of units.
After KS, this knife will retail at $650. That figure is not marketing hype.
Anyway, I really appreciate everyones thoughts and support.
Backers, again ... Thank You
Thanks for your comments and explanation of why you chose the materials you did for what looks like an incredible karambit. And congratulations on the successful launch of your very cool knife.
But I found some of the statements in your post confusing and was hoping that can you clarify them. For example, you say, "7075 is roughly as strong as mild steel, yet much lighter than steel or titanium."
I don't think that statement is correct, or at least it doesn't make much sense to me without a reference to volume. 7075 is a great material, but it's a lot weaker than steel at the same volume, but stronger at the same weight. By comparison, I believe that a given volume of high grade of titanium (Grade 5 6AL-4V) will have a 75 percent greater yield strength than 7075, while 7075 has only a 57 percent weight advantage at the same volume. So at the same volume or the same weight, titanium will be superior to 7075 on yield strength.
At the same volume, steel has a much greater yield strength than 7075 or titanium, but also heavier.
You say that, "Titanium is “cool” but adds nothing but extra weight and complexity (need for bushings) in this particular application." If the frame size remains the same, a high grade of titanium would be stronger than your 7075 frame, but a little heavier and perhaps have some of the downsides that you mention. But it would add strength. With titanium, you could reduce the weight and still have a stronger frame.
You say that, "CPM 3V offers some of the highest strength at high hardness conditions available. Much higher than many popular boutique stainless alloys. Because of this, many associate it with larger, chopping blades. These same strength/hardness characteristics, however, make it an excellent choice for a small fine-edge blade with very pronounced point, such as a karambit, which can be expected to encounter high working loads in use."
You make a good point that CPM 3V is a great choice for a karambit with a thin, sharp tip, but not because it's stronger but because it's tougher (more resistant to chipping and breaking).
Could you also explain why you didn't choose carbon fiber for the frame? I'm just curious.
Here's some specs that I found that raised the questions. The density is the weight of a cubic inch of each metal.
Grade 8 Alloy Steel:
Yield Strength: 130,000 psi
Ultimate Tensile Strength: 150,000psi
Shear Strength: 90,000psi
Density: .284 lb/in^3
7075 Aluminum:
Yield Strength: 73,000psi
Ultimate Tensile Strength: 83,000psi
Strength: 48,000psi
Density: .102 lb/in^3
Grade 5 6AL-4V Titanium:
Yield Strength: 128,000psi
Ultimate Tensile Strength: 138,000psi
Shear Strength: 79,800psi
Density: .160 lb/in^3
http://www.tikore.com/titanium-facts/
But I found some of the statements in your post confusing and was hoping that can you clarify them. For example, you say, "7075 is roughly as strong as mild steel, yet much lighter than steel or titanium."
I don't think that statement is correct, or at least it doesn't make much sense to me without a reference to volume. 7075 is a great material, but it's a lot weaker than steel at the same volume, but stronger at the same weight. By comparison, I believe that a given volume of high grade of titanium (Grade 5 6AL-4V) will have a 75 percent greater yield strength than 7075, while 7075 has only a 57 percent weight advantage at the same volume. So at the same volume or the same weight, titanium will be superior to 7075 on yield strength.
At the same volume, steel has a much greater yield strength than 7075 or titanium, but also heavier.
You say that, "Titanium is “cool” but adds nothing but extra weight and complexity (need for bushings) in this particular application." If the frame size remains the same, a high grade of titanium would be stronger than your 7075 frame, but a little heavier and perhaps have some of the downsides that you mention. But it would add strength. With titanium, you could reduce the weight and still have a stronger frame.
You say that, "CPM 3V offers some of the highest strength at high hardness conditions available. Much higher than many popular boutique stainless alloys. Because of this, many associate it with larger, chopping blades. These same strength/hardness characteristics, however, make it an excellent choice for a small fine-edge blade with very pronounced point, such as a karambit, which can be expected to encounter high working loads in use."
You make a good point that CPM 3V is a great choice for a karambit with a thin, sharp tip, but not because it's stronger but because it's tougher (more resistant to chipping and breaking).
Could you also explain why you didn't choose carbon fiber for the frame? I'm just curious.
Here's some specs that I found that raised the questions. The density is the weight of a cubic inch of each metal.
Grade 8 Alloy Steel:
Yield Strength: 130,000 psi
Ultimate Tensile Strength: 150,000psi
Shear Strength: 90,000psi
Density: .284 lb/in^3
7075 Aluminum:
Yield Strength: 73,000psi
Ultimate Tensile Strength: 83,000psi
Strength: 48,000psi
Density: .102 lb/in^3
Grade 5 6AL-4V Titanium:
Yield Strength: 128,000psi
Ultimate Tensile Strength: 138,000psi
Shear Strength: 79,800psi
Density: .160 lb/in^3
http://www.tikore.com/titanium-facts/
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TwinDog,
I appreciate your thoughts.
I did not compare 7075 strength to titanium. Not sure where that came from.
Why did you list Grade 8 Alloy steel when I specifically said "Mild Steel"?
Mild Steel 1018 (C .14-.20) vs 7075 Aluminum
Yield Strength: 53700 psi (1018) vs 73000 psi (7075)
Ultimate Tensile Strength: 63,800 psi (1018) vs 83,000 psi (7075)
Shear Strength: 49,200 psi (1018) vs 48,000 psi (7075)
I didn't come up with the idea that 7075 is "roughly as strong as mild steel". It's been the ubiquitous "talking point" in the industry for this material for decades.
I was afraid my commenting on this thread would end up derail its usefulness to most participants and turn into a "gotcha" pissing contest somehow.
Kinda classic BF.
Sorry to all.
I'll stay out.
I appreciate your thoughts.
I did not compare 7075 strength to titanium. Not sure where that came from.
Why did you list Grade 8 Alloy steel when I specifically said "Mild Steel"?
Mild Steel 1018 (C .14-.20) vs 7075 Aluminum
Yield Strength: 53700 psi (1018) vs 73000 psi (7075)
Ultimate Tensile Strength: 63,800 psi (1018) vs 83,000 psi (7075)
Shear Strength: 49,200 psi (1018) vs 48,000 psi (7075)
I didn't come up with the idea that 7075 is "roughly as strong as mild steel". It's been the ubiquitous "talking point" in the industry for this material for decades.
I was afraid my commenting on this thread would end up derail its usefulness to most participants and turn into a "gotcha" pissing contest somehow.
Kinda classic BF.
Sorry to all.
I'll stay out.
SpySmasher
Lead Guitar
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Lighten up, Joe. Nobody's in a pissing contest with you. He asked a question; you answered. You seem to have a winner on your hands here, don't ruin the nice vibe.
Unnecessary meltdown. Classic BF?
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All technical shmechnical aside...
I like the karambit!
I like the karambit!
Thanks for the reply, although you missed all of my points and questions. I wasn't trying to one-up you, but I was interested that you dismissed titanium as "adding nothing," even though it's stronger for weight and volume. It's kind of a given in the knife world that titanium is better than aluminum, expect for cost and some manufacturing complexity. So your opinion that aluminum is much better was an interesting take on the issue.
But since you're not going to discuss it, I'll just wish you luck with your project. Looks like an awesome knife.
But since you're not going to discuss it, I'll just wish you luck with your project. Looks like an awesome knife.
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AAAGH!
I was going to stay out, but got an email from someone that thought I was mad or something. Not mad.
...so one more post on this thread and I'm out for good, promise!
Everyone,
I've been around BF longer than most. Technical discussion often becomes arguments about semantics and definitions, very finely minced, that are in fact "pissing contests". I think we've all seen this, no? That's what I meant by "Typical BF". Don't mean to disparage the community, of which I am a part, or anyone in this thread.
Twindog,
Thanks for the kind wishes.
About titanium: IMO, it "adds nothing" toward the design objectives for THIS application. Perhaps you thought I was making a general statement that 7075 is generally superior or that titanium has no general advantages over 7075. Of course, that would be absurd on it's face. All materials have trade-offs. The question is what's the best material for a specific job.
Titanium is simply not the correct material for THIS application for the reasons stated (weight, terrible COF). Yes, it's stronger, obviously. But when 7075 easily meets strength requirements for the application, titanium's surplus strength is not particularly relevant to the equation, so it "adds nothing" in that regard. Meanwhile the extra weight and horrible COF far outweigh the benefit of it's surplus strength for this particular part.
If I thought Ti was the right material for this part, I would use it ... period. It would look so cool flame striped! As it is, the "cool factor" (which I don't disparage, btw
) would be the primary reason to select titanium over 7075 for THIS particular part (the handle/base portion), and that doesn't do it for me.
I hope that clarifies my reasoning on it.
Thanks again for the kind wishes. Really appreciate it!
Again, sorry for the derail, everyone!
I'll stay out this time. See you on other threads!
I was going to stay out, but got an email from someone that thought I was mad or something. Not mad.
...so one more post on this thread and I'm out for good, promise!
Everyone,
I've been around BF longer than most. Technical discussion often becomes arguments about semantics and definitions, very finely minced, that are in fact "pissing contests". I think we've all seen this, no? That's what I meant by "Typical BF". Don't mean to disparage the community, of which I am a part, or anyone in this thread.
Twindog,
Thanks for the kind wishes.
About titanium: IMO, it "adds nothing" toward the design objectives for THIS application. Perhaps you thought I was making a general statement that 7075 is generally superior or that titanium has no general advantages over 7075. Of course, that would be absurd on it's face. All materials have trade-offs. The question is what's the best material for a specific job.
Titanium is simply not the correct material for THIS application for the reasons stated (weight, terrible COF). Yes, it's stronger, obviously. But when 7075 easily meets strength requirements for the application, titanium's surplus strength is not particularly relevant to the equation, so it "adds nothing" in that regard. Meanwhile the extra weight and horrible COF far outweigh the benefit of it's surplus strength for this particular part.
If I thought Ti was the right material for this part, I would use it ... period. It would look so cool flame striped! As it is, the "cool factor" (which I don't disparage, btw
) would be the primary reason to select titanium over 7075 for THIS particular part (the handle/base portion), and that doesn't do it for me.I hope that clarifies my reasoning on it.
Thanks again for the kind wishes. Really appreciate it!
Again, sorry for the derail, everyone!
I'll stay out this time. See you on other threads!
NO. I've never been ripped for not triple checking anything I ever posted to Blade Forums for errors, the fact that I might insult the effeminate sensibilities of someone, or their stepmom's uncle's nephew's wife. 
And that is not why I read posts for two years, all the way back 680 forum pages, before I joined BF, and then stuck my foot in the doodoo
within the first 60 posts. "Everyone" here is even keeled.
And that is not why I read posts for two years, all the way back 680 forum pages, before I joined BF, and then stuck my foot in the doodoo
within the first 60 posts. "Everyone" here is even keeled.
Last edited:
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He already clarified his comment. People will always argue semantics, terminology and have differing opinions on materials and designs. If it bothers you, no one is forcing your participation.
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He already clarified his comment. People will always argue semantics, terminology and have differing opinions on materials and designs. If it bothers you, no one is forcing your participation.
Nope.... hive mind
How do I want this knife I just heard of?!?! Darn it!!
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Haha! Doesn't take much! It is a pretty cool mechanism.
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If it was one of his fixed blade designs, made by millit and a $250 pledge I wouldn’t hesitate. This knife is neato but not for me.
DocJD
Basic Member
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I somehow doubt that this will revolutionize THE way most knives are made in the future . Just too complex mechanically without offering much (if any) practical / functional improvement in performance for real world (dirty) hard use . But , heck yeah , I still want one ! I think it will do just fine as a novelty bling exclusive type product . I'll have to wait for some very much cheaper version to play with . 
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I'm not sure the application outside of karambits myself, since reverse grip is basically the only way it works to open, but it is a pretty awesome karambit. Enough that I backed three.