ccw recommendation for wife

shootist16

shootist16

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My wife is getting her handgun carry permit. I have a .38 centennial that she can have, but the trigger pull on those are horrible. What would be a decent little gun for her to carry?
 
Any S&W ending in -42. 342, 442, 642. Excellent .38 sp+P 5-shot J-frames.

Kel-Tec P3AT. A very slim .380.

Kahr PM9. A very slim 9mm.
 
you might try installing wolf or wilson springs in the .38 centennial before you give up on it. these aftermarket springs do wonders for these little guns in reducing the poundage needed the make them go "bang". after all nothing beats these little guns for simplicity, reliabilty, and the "nothing to forget when the time comes to use them" factor. ive trained a lot females who were not gun finatics and they tend to forget things on auto's like safeties, clearing malfunctions, and some always forget and put their thumbs behind the slide while firing an auto, which of course ends the training for that day pretty fast. just something to think about before you give up on the .38 centennial. ,,,VWB.
 
There are several ways you can go, but first off, make sure she's using the proper trigger finger placement.

Some women put as much of their finger thru the triggerguard as possible, or sometimes, barely at all. Either one quickly loses the leverage needed to complete the pull.

Make sure the trigger rides in the first joint of the finger. If she still has trouble, as has been suggested, a trigger job or replacement springs might do the trick. Related to that might be some grips that fit HER better. (this goes back to the leverage issue)

If it's still a no-go, then a Kahr 9mm P9, Keltec .380 / .32 or Ruger LCP might fill the bill.

When it comes to women (and most men) the "best" gun is the one they'll actually carry with them, regardless of effectiveness or caliber.

.
 
my wife and I just shot the S&W M&P in 9mm, the fullsize and compact and she liked the compact very much, taking her to get one on fri or sat.
 
As was said the trigger on the Centennial can be improved on. Best thing to do however is to take her to a range that rents guns if that is at all possible and let her find one that she is comfortable with, but keep it in a decent caliber, 32ACP being the minimum...38 or 9mm would be better. Then let her get training, preferably without you being present. Then it is simply a matter of practice, practice, and practice.
 
Absintheur said:
As was said the trigger on the Centennial can be improved on. Best thing to do however is to take her to a range that rents guns if that is at all possible and let her find one that she is comfortable with, but keep it in a decent caliber, 32ACP being the minimum...38 or 9mm would be better. Then let her get training, preferably without you being present. Then it is simply a matter of practice, practice, and practice.
Click to expand...


Key points.. Make sure its something she is comfortable with and that SHE picks it out...
Definetely get her some training. It doesn't matter how much experience or training you have, women seem to be more open and receptive to training from someone they aren't related too, especially husbands.. :mad:
 
I would also suggest Kahr Arms guns as well.
Do you have a range that you could take her to to rent some different handguns?That would be my best suggestion.
 
ONLY let her pick from your pre-screened selection of acceptable guns.

Every once in awhile, a woman will pick a gun because it's "cute" or it "feels nice."

Either one of which may be true simply holding it at the gun counter, but a very different view of the same gun can take place immediately after firing the first shot.

Of course, the "acceptable guns" concept may have to be expanded to get her to carry/shoot anything..
 
David E said:
ONLY let her pick from your pre-screened selection of acceptable guns.

Every once in awhile, a woman will pick a gun because it's "cute" or it "feels nice."

Either one of which may be true simply holding it at the gun counter, but a very different view of the same gun can take place immediately after firing the first shot.

Of course, the "acceptable guns" concept may have to be expanded to get her to carry/shoot anything..
Click to expand...

This is the only correct answer.

I will add that the professional defense trainers state that .38 snubbies are an expert's gun. They are very demanding on near perfection in the shooting form and technique. Not preferred for a starting shooter.

A polymer framed 9mm is your best solution. Ruger's LCP in 380 is really too small to be accurate, and while it is a tremendous backup gun for you, probably not the best selection for your wife.

Think striker fired Kahr, Glock, S&W M&P, Springfield XD and the like. These have a low bore axis so felt recoil is minimized, provide for a full (or nearly full) grip, and heavy enough and are made of a material that will further dampen recoil, yet are light enough to be carried on a quality holster on a quality belt.

Remember that this is a lifestyle change, not an addition to a waredrobe. Have the wife get some quality training from a professional (not you... Sorry, we jsut are not qble to teach our wives). Once she has the requisite training she will have a depth of knowlege and skill at arms to let her decide the attribute sho most wants in a defensive sidearm.

Some women have left training and decided that a 1911 is for them!

You might recommend that your wife read http://http://www.corneredcat.com/

There is a wealth of knowledge in there and she has some good advice for fitting womens holsters.

Inside the waistband is a really hard thing for a woman to pull off due to their curves (not that I'm compaining about the curves mind you) as their hips tend to push the grip deeply into the rib cage. You or I can pretty much take any holster and belt off the shelf and with some moving around find a spot that works. Women aren't so lucky.

A Karh MK 9 or K9 can work inside the waistband with the MTAC by Comp-Tac www.comp-tac.com.

Consider a Mitch Rosen, Milt-Sparks or Lou Alessi outisde the waistband hoslter for Glock 26 (even a 19 is doable, but would be work to dress around), M&P or XD. The double stack only adds 1/4 of an inch, and doesn't preclude these fron IWB carry, by OWB makes much more sence for a woman since the grip can be canted away from the ribs. No middle of the back (too dangerous in case of a fall). Somewhere between 3:30 and 4:30 is most likely to be the most comfortable position.

ETA: Don't forget to let her pick a high quality belt. Milt-Sparks, etc.
 
I disagree that the ".38 snubbie" is a professional's only defensive firearm. Ed Lovette, who is probably the foremost expert in the use of the snubnosed revolver also feels it is a very viable handgun for anyone for self defense. Several reasons for this. First the vast majority of self defense shooting occur in lest than 10 feet, many at less than 5. Target sights are not needed for this. Second, most defensive shooting are 3-4 rounds max, high capacity is not needed. Third, a enclosed hammer revolver like the S&W 340 or 642 can be fired from inside a coat pocket or even from inside a purse if needed. Fourth, if power to weight and ease of concealment is consider very few things equal J-Frame size revolver. Fifth, a semiauto may not fire if pressed against the attacker, a revolver will. If you consider how many times an attacker ends up on top of a woman on the ground you will understand why this is important. Sixth, ease of teaching. It is far easier to teach anyone to hit a human sized target center mass at 3-5 yards with a revolver than it is to teach the same plus all of the remedial drills necessary with a semi-auto.

I am not saying a small 9mm like the Ket-Tec PF-9 or the Kahr, or even larger framed semi-autos should not be considered. I am saying don't write off the snubbie as being useless to everyone but professionals because it is a very useful SD handgun for anyone.
 
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Absintheur said:
I disagree that the ".38 snubbie" is a professional's only defensive firearm.

You are correct.

Perhaps I misspoke. I didn't mean to imply that a snubbie could not adequately be used by less than an "expert" level shooter, only that it is considerably more difficult to shoot accurately than a soft recoiling semi-auto

I should also add that I am not an expert shooter, but that I carry a S&W airlite in .38+P, all day every day, in a little Milt Sparks pocket holster. I consider it to be the absolute ultimate backup hangun, and could certainly serve as a primary, but I prefer something heavier, larger with better sights and a little more oomph.

Ed Lovette, who is probably the foremost expert in the use of the snubnosed revolver also feels it is a very viable handgun for anyone for self defense. Several reasons for this. First the vast majority of self defense shooting occur in lest than 10 feet, many at less than 5. Target sights are not needed for this.

I can think of a few cases where trained officers with full size weapons did a complete mag dump in the general direction of a bad guy and didn't score a single hit. Five to ten feet sounds close, but when bullets are going both directions a good sight picture could be more important than we give it credit for. I prefer to give myself every advantage.


Second, most defensive shooting are 3-4 rounds max, high capacity is not needed.

Maybe... or maybe not. What if you have to defend yourself against five tweakers high on meth and bent on killing you.

The statistical liklihood of you or I finding ourselves in a life or death situation in which we will be called upon to use a handgun to extricate ourselves is about the same as being struck by lighting (so long as we aren't out late drinking and carousing). If we are looking at the odds and statistics the need to carry a firearm for protection is pretty low to begin with, and while you may think you are twice or three times as likely to only need a few rounds to solve the problem, the difference is actaully about the same when you think about it (i.e. neither is likely at all, so there is a small disparity between the two possibilities). I've made the decision to defend myself, and much prefer a larger weapon that is easier to handle (this can certainly include a small to mid-sized revolver with speed loaders - Clint Smith loves this option). I've seen where Clint will sometimes carry a scandium framed mid-sized revolver IWB, and two snubbies (one in teh pocket and one in an ankle rig.


Third, a enclosed hammer revolver like the S&W 340 or 642 can be fired from inside a coat pocket or even from inside a purse if needed. Fourth, if power to weight and ease of concealment is consider very few things equal J-Frame size revolver.

Yup. Another great advantage to the little snubbies.

Fifth, a semiauto may not fire if pressed against the attacker, a revolver will. If you consider how many times an attacker ends up on top of a woman on the ground you will understand why this is important.

Debatable - The XD will since it has a standoff. I don't even know if this is really something to consider or not.

Sixth, ease of teaching. It is far easier to teach anyone to hit a human sized target center mass at 3-5 yards with a revolver than it is to teach the same plus all of the remedial drills necessary with a semi-auto.

This was the concensus a few years ago. I'm not going to go so far as to say that it is 100% incorrect, but the big name professionals out there today teaching the defensive arts (Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch, the Gunsite crew, et al) are starting people out with polymer framed semi-autos and are having great success. The polymer frame semi-auto is light shooting due to bore-axis height, recoil being absorbed by the slide, softer materials, and a more ergonomic grip. They are pleasent to shoot. You are correct in saying that the manual at arms is somewhat more complicated than a revolver, but it's not really that big of a difference.

I am not saying a small 9mm like the Ket-Tec PF-9 or the Kahr, or even larger framed semi-autos should not be considered. I am saying don't write off the snubbie as being useless to everyone but professionals because it is a very useful SD handgun for anyone.

Agreed. You make some great points. You rightly point out that it isn't an expert's only gun, but I would still want a new shooter to have some time under their belts with an easy shooting semi-auto first.
Click to expand...

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I am also a wheel gun fan!! I carry my S&W 342 PD a whole lot. In fact, I always have it when I am doing a lot of driving. I personally would never BE with out a revolver! (And for those of that do not know, I AM a woman.)
 
p220c

First I would start any shooter off with a 22, not a 38 or 9mm.

You are right about the magazine dumps however I would also point out that when police departments have changed from revolvers to semi autos their hit per shot ratio dropped by 70% on average proving that spray and pray does not work. And if you are faced by 5 attackers who are willing to charge a loaded gun, unless you are a highly trained professional you are probably going to lose. I don't think I could win against 5 people who all charged at once and didn't back down when one or two were shot. Best you can do is try to get your back to a wall and hope none want to be the first to die.

I started my ex with a 22 revolver and she quickly transitioned to my shrouded Detective Special after a few hundred rounds. Shooting my reloads, which are a 125 JHP at 1100fps, she had no problem keeping them in the 9 ring at 5 yards shooting pretty fast. She also took some training from some of the best which didn't hurt. She even practiced some shooting through a coat pocket at close range (2-3 foot). Just buy some jackets from Goodwill for this. The two inch snubbie has a sight radius of about 3 3/4 inches, it is not that difficult to shoot well and despite what some people think the bullet does not go 20 feet then turn left....lol. I know Mas in particular has been known to take a student that is having problems hitting with their auto and will put a revolver in their hands to help build up their skills. If someone is not going to practice enough to shoot a revolver or semi-auto well they will likely never practice remedial drills necessary to a semi-auto. Having a gun that turns into a single shot because it was limp wristed, contact fired, or just had a bad day and had a failure to feed takes away all of the semi-autos reputed pluses.

I am not anti semi-auto, I carried them for years and still carry my PF-9 daily and occasionally carry my P7M8. I have shot and tested so many guns I can't remember all of them but today I most often carry a 45acp airweight 2 1/2 inch revolver (325PD) or a 2" fixed sight 45acp revolver (Warthog) with a Detective Special as a BUG and the PF-9 in deep concealment.

I don't advise against others carrying a semi-auto as long as they are willing to put in both the trigger time and, more importantly, the time practicing remedial actions. Semi-autos are great guns for those skilled in their use and anyone can learn to use them well. But shooting is a learned skill and it is a perishable skill as are the remedial action drills that go along with them. If not practiced the skills quickly fade. So I feel for people who are going to carry and not practice much then a revolver makes more sense.

I would also point out the intimidation factor with a revolver. An attacker has no way of knowing if a semi-auto is on safe or not or if it is loaded, or even if it is real. However in a revolver they can see the things that are going to hurt them, they understand there is no safety and they know pain is a trigger pull away. There was one incident where a police officer was attacked by a BG using a 38 revolver. He could not even tell the race of the attacker in his report but he was able to recall the gun was loaded with Winchester Silver Tips. I know intimidation isn't something you can depend on but it may back a less determined attacker down or at least cause him to pause. Any delay is going to be in your favor and if it doesn't happen than nothing lost.
 
I own and love the Kel Tec P32 you could look at it or the P3AT in .380 or if you want to step up to 9mm there is a keltec that is small check out ktog.org for lots more info on keltec
 
Unless your woman is a firearm enthusiast who is going to practice not only shooting but clearance drills,I'd go with a Smith hammerless revolver.
5 for sure is better than a bunch of maybes.
Women are notorious for limp wristing semi auto pistols even while practicing.
Under stress,which most women have never been in a fight or played contact sports,stress,fine motor skills and limp wristing is going to be much worse.
I've taught several hundred women self defense with a handgun.
That was my full time job for several years and I still do it part time.
For my sister or Girlfriend that wanted a gun to protect themselves but wasn't a IDPA or IPSC type,I'd go Smith and Wesson Revolver.
I've seen rental guns go years and years without cleaning in a security guard school and never break or jam up.
Semi Auto which I love,over many years you need to cycle magazines,maintain springs and oil and clean the gun.
I've seen guns from both sexes come into the range literally rusted into and stuck in the owners holster.
Some were cops and security guards believe it or not.
That's another thing.
Don't get a blued gun.
They rust to easy.

Face the facts.
Most women are going to put the gun in their purse and not touch it for years at a time.
You'll be lucky if she even puts it in her different purse everyday.
She can always get something better later.
I'm a big believer in a man needing a subcompact, a medium and a man-stopper so you always have at least one with you.
Men don't have purses and wear different clothes because of weather.
There's also different levels of risk due to location,occupation and things like the car you drive.

I think the hardest skill to teach was the long term discipline of carrying every day.
Crap always happens when you leave it at home.
I can teach anyone how to shoot very skillfully.
Making good decisions and mental discipline is beyond a few shooting lessons.

If you're a bad-ass woman, no offense.
I know there are a few out there.
You're the exception.
 
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