Ceramic Sharpeners? Which one?

Dannyc · May 2, 1999

I currently have a deluxe turnbox crockstick sharpener by Lansky. So far, it does pretty well, sharpening knives.

I know of Spyderco's Sharpmaker, and then there's GATCO's GatStix.

My question is, with all these ceramic stick sharpeners, which one is the best? I know the word "best" is relative. Round sticks as opposed to angular sticks, etc... As to composition, are these all just the same? if not, what makes one alumina-ceramic stick differ from another? Any info is truly appreciated!

I find sharpening knives using these are the fastest and easiest way to get a good edge. So I'm thinking of purchasing a couple for friends of mine (and my dad, of course). Though I'm confused as to which one will give the best performance (regardless of price).

Thanks!

Dan

PS. Using these v-type sharpeners, do you think diamond-coated sticks like the one DMT is selling, would be better than ceramic sticks?

Kodiak PA · May 2, 1999

My vote goes to the Spyderco Sharpmaker. To me it wins hands down.

------------------
~Greg~

Dannyc · May 2, 1999

Hi Greg!

Well, you and a thousand others!

But what I can't understand is what makes the Sharpmaker more effective than the other v-shaped sharpeners in the market? They have the same alumina-ceramic sharpening rods, comes at a preset angle, but except for the fact that the Sharpmaker's rods are flat or angular, and the rest are cylindrical, anything else that I've missed so far?

This is not an attack on the Sharpmaker, okay? I love Spyderco, they are a great company, and their products are outstanding in every sense of the word. But when it comes to sharpeners, I have yet to find out what makes Sharpmaker different or unique from all the rest, aside from the said flat design of the rods.

Thanks...

Dan

Blades · May 2, 1999

The good thing about the Sharpmaker is the triangler stones. They are made for serrations. I imagine the stones are all made from the same stuff, but the round ceramic stones just don't fit in the small serrations. If you don't have any serrated knives, or never sharpen any one elses serrated knives, then you probably don't need a triangle stone. I suppose you could sharpen serrations on the edge of a flat stone if ya had to.

Blades

bald1 · May 2, 1999

My vote too goes to the Spydie Triangle Sharpmaker hands down. Nothing else even comes close

!

-=[Bob]=-

Howard Wallace · May 2, 1999

I havent found a ceramic sharpener that didnt work. I use an ancient set of Crock Sticks in the kitchen. But if you want to do serrations a triangular stone is necessary. I prefer the Sharpmaker of the triangular stones Ive tried.

Dannyc · May 3, 1999

Blades - I tried sharpening an angle using the edge of a sharpening stone, and it works... somewhat..

Though I figured the Sharpmaker's stone was designed specifically for this purpose, right? I mean, the triangular design of their ceramic sticks, that is.

Bob - Hehehe... Like I said, Greg and a thousand others.

I dunno what it is, maybe it's the fact that Sal is very supportive and very active here, that we in turn, show our support by patronizing their products? Nothing wrong with that, as I'd do the same. The only reason I posted this question was that I couldn't find anything else different from their ceramic stick, to those of the rest. Now, when it comes to diamond hones, that's a different story I guess.. as I've heard some diamond hones chipping away or something.. (gulp) that couldn't happen to a ceramic stick now, could it?

Howard - As a matter of fact, I feel the same way. I couldn't see any difference between the ceramic sticks found in the different brands. I guess it's up to user preferences.

As of today, I've ordered a Spyderco Profile Set, those manual ceramic sticks that should do the work of a Sharpmaker, minus the base, as I prefer manual sharpening over the more convenient v-shaped guide base, or the aligner kits.

I did notice something though... Given the same coarseness (grits), I wonder why a ceramic stick usually gives a better edge than a diamond hone of the same grit?? Dunno if it's the alumina-ceramic stuff giving the knives a polish at the same time it's sharpening, or something... anybody noticed this as well? or am I doing something wrong? But they both give a hair-popping edge after I'm done, just that diamond honed knives are a bit more coarse than the ceramic honed ones.

Dan

Joe Talmadge · May 3, 1999

I agree with Howard, ceramic v-stick sharpeners basically all seem to work. For me, though, the Spyderco Sharpmaker has a few extra advantages:

- Triangular sticks can be used to sharpen most serration patterns

- New Sharpmaker has choice of 2 different angles. Most systems only have 1.

- One disadvantage of the stick systems is that removing a lot of metal (e.g., re-profiling the edge) can take a long time, because so little of the steel's edge is on the stone at any one time. The flat part of the triangular sticks can sometimes give you full-width contact, whereas a typical round or oval stick gives you point-contact only.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com

Dannyc · May 3, 1999

Joe!!!!

You're a sight for sore eyes! hahahaha!

The one responsible for my proficiency in hand-sharpening!

I knew that the word "sharpening" will get your attention sooner or later, lol!

You have a point there.. specially that part on point-contact vs. full-width contact. Point contact is better for finishing off the edge, right? But to reprofile, I use my DMT stones, much easier than the slicing mov't.

Hmmm... this turnbox crockstick has 2 preset angles here. One is 17-deg. and the other, 20-deg. Any idea what the preset angles are for the Sharpmaker 204? The 203 only has one angle, right?

The only thing that got me to posting this question, is because I'm planning on giving some to friends of mine (and my ever-beloved dad, hehe) to introduce them to sharpening the easy way.

I guess with all the inputs I got so far, I'm going for the Sharpmaker. I just hope more dealers are carrying the 204 already.

Thanks all! I really appreciate the input!

Regards,

Dan

Mark W Douglas · May 3, 1999

SPYDERCO SHARPMAKER ....
Use leather with jewelers rouge for a finishing touch, gets blades razor sharp !!!

Mark

Dannyc · May 3, 1999

Yep.. saw your thread there, Mark.

I use Joe's suggestion of using my jeans to strop the knife after I'm done sharpening. I find it eliminates the burr quite nicely. I have yet to try it out on a leather strop. I saw a barber here using what looks like an ordinary leather belt (the ones used to hold the pants up, heheheh) for stropping. Isn't that damaging to the knife??

Pardon my ignorance, but I live in the Philippines, and I would like to ask, what's a jeweler's rouge? Any specific brand? coz I don't think I know where it's available here, so I might have to look for its availability on... where else? the internet stores.

Thanks!

Dan

Joe Talmadge · May 3, 1999

hey, hey Danny, good to see someone got some good out of the FAQ

Quick note on jeweler's rouge. I personally haven't tried that on my strop. However, I've been told by several people that it is more aggressive than is optimal. I haven't had time to test that theory out yet, though. In any case, I usually use just a regular tube of stropping paste. A number of people have reported great success with the green chrome type paste. both those pastes are much less abrasive than jeweler's rouge.

I think knifecenter.com sells the small white tubes of stropping paste, head to their strop page.

Joe

Dannyc · May 3, 1999

Yo Joe!

I'm pretty sure a lot of people benefited from the FAQ, me included!

It was your personal guidance via email that inspired me to learn and persist, to where I am now.

I'm pretty proud of what I can do with just a sharpening stone, thanks to you.

Though please help, I can't seem to find your article regarding using the Sharpmaker and a coarse stone or something like that. Lost my bookmark page..

Any key words I should try? My searching isn't giving me anything at all.

Now, with regards to the stropping paste, I'll check it out at the Knifecenter right now. Just in time too, as I am planning to get some other stuffs from them as well.

I read somewhere that cardboard impregnated by metal polish works too... and have tried it a couple of times, but only ended up getting messy.. augh!!

Let's see if we can turn these knives to being hair-popping-scary sharp!

Though you're right, dunno why polished edges don't cut as well as they pop hair. I noticed that and thought there's something wrong with how I sharpened the thing.

Regards!
Dan

William Johnson · May 3, 1999

Dan,

Great question. One for which I too have searched for a good answer, and if I may piggy-back on your compliment to Joe, I too, learned quite a bit from his articles.
I have the old model sharpmaker and have found it performs well for it's designated purpose, in fact I may someday get the new model as it comes with a 30 degree inclusive and a 40 degree angle(or so I have been told).
That being said however, I must iterate that I am a big proponent of freehand sharpening. I know it takes practice and it isn't perfect and believe me, I am no expert, but it does give me a better feel for the edge geometry I am working with as well as more control over how I profile my edge.
I too, use the jean strop method as I do not have a leather strop and I have heard good and bad about stropping.
BTW, I also have the Gatco and feel it would be a good field expedient method, but prefer the DMT's for now.
Perhaps one day I will get a set of Benchstones.

Take care good buddy and I will see you on the other side.

In Christ's name,
Shane

------------------
God bless!

Romans 10:9-10

"Military" Fans Unite!!

Dannyc · May 4, 1999

Shane! Glad to see you here, too.

Anyway, I figured that Joe's right in a sense that all ceramic sharpeners are the same, basically.. except that Spyderco's Sharpmaker has a triangular structure, which is not only good for the serrated edges, but that you can let it guide the bevel of the blade itself, hence room for error will be minimized, and you just have to concentrate on the slicing action.

As to the rounded ceramic sticks, I figured there's more room for error, specially if you're not steady with your slicing action.

For bevelling, a flat ceramic stick is okay, but I think I prefer to re-bevel knives using an Aligner kit w/ coarse or even x-coarse stones. At least no matter how you move the stone, it'll stay at a constant angle.

I suppose those rounded ceramic sticks are for those who have slight experience with sharpening already, since you need a steady hand to make sure the point of contact doesn't change during the slicing action. The Sharpmaker, on the other hand, will act like a semi-guide and would follow the bevel of the edge, I think..

Regardless, these are all great products. I am just wondering what to give to my friends (and dad) who wants convenience in sharpening, and wouldn't want to go though hand-techniques (lazy crazies, hehehe). I guess the Sharpmaker is it. Anybody knows when it'll be really out in the market? the 204, I mean..

Hmm... Shane, you're planning to get some benchstones? I heard the 204 can act as a benchstone (special feature) if you put both sticks side by side and the base has a holder for that.

Pretty thin benchstone, but I think i'll do the job, unless you're sharpening an axe! LOL!!

Anybody used the Gatco Gatstix already? I wish there was a comparison of the different ceramic sticks out in the market, and their components. They say GATCO's ceramic sticks rate 9.22 in the MOHS scale, whatever that is, with diamong rated at 10 out of 10.

Regards!

Dan

Mark W Douglas · May 4, 1999

Dan,

I buy my rouge at a leather craft supply store. It is sold there because it is used to sharpen the leather carving tools. Tandy's Leather is the company's name.

I have even purchased it directly from a jeweler as well. Once I even found it at Builder's Square, which is now going out of business!

Try the web site of Rio-Grande. They sell everything under the sun for jewelers at a wholesale price. Anyone can request there free catalogs, I have their catalogs and they are very thick ones. I ordered from them as well, fast and friendly service!

I have been using rouge on leather for years now, never had any problems with using it on blades!

Mark

[This message has been edited by Mark W Douglas (edited 04 May 1999).]

William Johnson · May 4, 1999

Dan,

I remember Nemo saying he and Fred Perrin use the Gatco to sharpen the Military with very good results.
The Gatco has an 800 grit and is supposed to be pretty good, although a bit short for my taste.

regards,
Shane

------------------
God bless!

Romans 10:9-10

"Military" Fans Unite!!

Joe Talmadge · May 4, 1999

Danny, the article you're asking about is "How to Make the Spyderco Sharpmaker Perform", it's on Knifeforums.com in either Knife Reviews or Knife DF&T forum. If the search feature isn't working (it wasn't the last time I tried it), just change your setting to see all articles within the last year and scan for it. It'll be there!

Joe

Dannyc · May 4, 1999

Hello Mark!

Hmmm.. I think I'll give their site a look-see. Thanks for the info!

Are you a jeweler by any chance? LOL! Just kidding! hehe..

If I don't have a leather strop, would an old belt that-keeps-your-pants-where-they-should-be work just as well? I've been using jeans to strop the blades, and not that drastically either, as I don't want the knives to end up being barber tools..hehehehe...

Regards,

Dan

Dannyc · May 4, 1999

Yo Shane!

Hmmm... Gatco's too short for your taste? But I think Gatco is wider than the Lansky, right? I still go for DMT Aligner Kit if I need to re-bevel. The prices for the Lansky and the Gatco caught my attention though.

As to the 800 grit, I wonder what grits those ceramic sticks come in at? They are normally marked "medium" and "fine" (wonder why nobody makes a coarse ceramic stick, hehe), but with regards to grits, I figured the white ceramic stick (fine) is about 600 grit, no idea on what the gray (or brown) stick's grit is though...

Geez... after the never-ending search for the best knife, we now come to the hard part, the search for the best sharpener around!

I'm seriously (I'm serious!!) thinking about getting the EdgePro Apex... though I've heard so little comments on that system, so I'll wait for more, before deciding to jump into the bandwagon.

Life... and all its mysteries.. LOL!!

Regards!

Dan