CFK Knife update and company history

I'll be interested in seeing the review. As far as I can tell the guy sells a pretty good knife at a good price. There is some argument around how details are conveyed but if the worst of what has been said is true it doesn't seem like anyone has lost anything in the purchase of the knife itself. I mean you'd probably be better off buying a fake TB Tracker than the real one at full price, given the gimmick behind it you'd at least saved some of your hard earned money.
 
Thomas Linton said:
So you endorse them as a great place to buy a fake?
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While I respect what you say most times, I find your complaints on this a bit tiring. I can agree that certain designs might be 'copied' by anyone, I also know that there are only finite designs to make. At some point, a 'copy' is bound to show up even if by pure accident. Am I saying their [CFK] designs are by 'accident?' No....however you cannot dismiss similarities between even the "big name" companies. Compare the Buck 119, the Smith & Wesson Bullseye and the KABAR USMC - all have extremely similar blade designs - yet no one cries about them being that close. The Cold Steel Mackinac Hunter, Case Crosman 956 and Schrade Uncle Henry LB3...all resembling the Buck 110. Oh yes, there are differences in steel compositions, subtle design changes and aesthetic variants but in the end, where are your sensibilities and "crying foul" in their existence? I simply don't see it....anywhere. Why is that?

I suspect your issues are motivated by reasons outside "copyright" complaints.
 
druid189 said:
While I respect what you say most times, I find your complaints on this a bit tiring. I can agree that certain designs might be 'copied' by anyone, I also know that there are only finite designs to make. At some point, a 'copy' is bound to show up even if by pure accident. Am I saying their [CFK] designs are by 'accident?' No....however you cannot dismiss similarities between even the "big name" companies. Compare the Buck 119, the Smith & Wesson Bullseye and the KABAR USMC - all have extremely similar blade designs - yet no one cries about them being that close. The Cold Steel Mackinac Hunter, Case Crosman 956 and Schrade Uncle Henry LB3...all resembling the Buck 110. Oh yes, there are differences in steel compositions, subtle design changes and aesthetic variants but in the end, where are your sensibilities and "crying foul" in their existence? I simply don't see it....anywhere. Why is that?

I suspect your issues are motivated by reasons outside "copyright" complaints.
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They call it the "Tracker," thus stealing the design and the name.

Not to mention such mind-benders as the "CFK USA Custom Handmade D2 Bowie Vietnam Urban Saigon Scout Combat Fighter Knife"

I am motivated by a dislike of fakes and fakers. Pakistani knives have every potential of being a value without dressing them up in "U.S.A."

I have no interest in whether you find my posts "tiring" or not.
 
Thomas Linton said:
They call it the "Tracker," thus stealing the design and the name.

Not to mention such mind-benders as the "CFK USA Custom Handmade D2 Bowie Vietnam Urban Saigon Scout Combat Fighter Knife"

I am motivated by a dislike of fakes and fakers. Pakistani knives have every potential of being a value without dressing them up in "U.S.A."

I have no interest in whether you find my posts "tiring" or not.
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You know, I wasn't going to say it but You and Boris74 sound surprisingly similar.

You remind me of that miserable old bastard in the block that everyone hates. Your overall negativity is nothing but a drain on society.

...and it's enough to add you to my ignore list. Get some prunes....might help [probably not though].
 
druid189, lets keep it on topic, and not discuss each other.

Thomas Linton can be hard to follow sometimes -- because he works hard, goes for all the details, and is focused on helping everyone interested to understand what's going on.
 
Despite the "value" of these knives and their dedication to providing "hand forged" D2 and other steels in hot designs :rolleyes::thumbdn:, let's not forget the information presented in the threads above. From T.M. Hunt to Jerry Hossom and others, these guys were blatantly ripping off their designs and using them for their own profit. As Thomas mentions, like it or not, the "Tracker" name is trademarked as well, and not legally theirs for use.

Druid, I understand you wanting to give them a fair shake, but you're just not going to find much sympathy for them around here based on these and other actions, no matter how much their knives cost.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
druid189, lets keep it on topic, and not discuss each other.

Thomas Linton can be hard to follow sometimes -- because he works hard, goes for all the details, and is focused on helping everyone interested to understand what's going on.
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He's impossible to follow now...he's on my ignore list.

I can understand a healthy work ethic because I have one also [occupation-wise]. Doesn't mean I have the right to talk down to everyone as if my defecation didn't stink like he does.

And I said before...I never implied that CFK didn't "copy" a name or a design. We all read he did with at least one blade, was called on it and halted the practice. Ok...we all get it...people need to move on already....

...and in moving on - to prove my point for one final time....one custom knife maker who is on this board - makes his particular rendition of the same exact blade people have cried "foul!" about. He was at least smart enough not to call it a TB Tracker though....even though it's obvious his design is, while proportionally and subtly different, is a shape-for-shape COPY OF the TBT. This is visually undeniable...yet he is lauded as a Master and heralded as an "inspiration." Bologna. You treat EVERYONE the same - Either treat them ALL like thieves or NONE of them like thieves. And what's the difference between the two? One costs hundreds and the others are bid on at evilbay. Big flippin' deal......

What I see is a witch-hunt and smear campaign by custom makers are being undercut by - POSSIBLY - mid-tech construction, labeled as "hand forged" [when possibly/probably not]...while looking up addresses of multiple employees and confusing two people with the same first names [on purpose? Dunno....]....and then don't get the "ins and outs" of their particular business practices or provider intel like they want. Oh whah.

I ALSO NOTED THAT MY QUESTION WAS NEVER ANSWERED...just another miserable PR response with no substance. It's hypocritical behavior like this, along with the "miserable eff " attitude/writing style that is simply unnecessary.

I also see is some people having s feces-fit because they can't sell their knives when there's a cheaper alternative to theirs. The average buyer doesn't really look at "hand forged" as much as they DO look at the design and TYPE of steel. I know I don't. I see see a blade and handle design I like. Then what I look for next is "D2"..."1095" or "5160" - Then I look at the price and that's ALL I look at. I buy it or I don't.

Do the custom makers on this forum make absolute beauties? Your darned right they do. I drool over most of their creations, knowing I'll never probably own one because their prices are out of the "common man's" reality. I'm not Rockefeller and many others aren't either. And when someone sells something remotely similar [even if "named" the same and then changed later] - people have a melt down years later about it while leaving "others" completely alone. It's BS...imo.

Sam Wilson said:
Despite the "value" of these knives and their dedication to providing "hand forged" D2 and other steels in hot designs :rolleyes::thumbdn:, let's not forget the information presented in the threads above. From T.M. Hunt to Jerry Hossom and others, these guys were blatantly ripping off their designs and using them for their own profit. As Thomas mentions, like it or not, the "Tracker" name is trademarked as well, and not legally theirs for use.

Druid, I understand you wanting to give them a fair shake, but you're just not going to find much sympathy for them around here based on these and other actions, no matter how much their knives cost.
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See, now that ^^ is a good example of acceptable forum etiquette that shows a dissenting opinion about a particular subject. It is much appreciated and highly welcomed.


I said earlier that I could understand/agree about the TBT...using the name....the design [even modified] and all that. But I also said, that design is also made by a "custom guy" here on the boards. No one is screaming from the rafters about his blades are they? I don't see it...anywhere. So why is 'that guy' left alone and CFK blasted on at every single turn?

The same question is posed/unanswered in my previous post regarding the Buck 110 et al. [in post #44]. I don't see the griping about the major knife makers either. Why is that? Because they are big companies? Because they aren't "small-time/small-business, custom guys?" What's good for the goose is good for the gander....

All I'm saying is if you [meaning a 'collective' "you"] are going to call "!FOUL!" on one person making "copies" then you better cry "!FOUL!" about EVERYONE making copies. That doesn't happen though and it should. It's 'being selective' who you choose to combat...selectively go after another "little guy" [read that as competition/threat to your business/side venture] but don't run the risk of big company lawyers? It's nothing short of cowardice.
 
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druid189 said:
He's impossible to follow now...he's on my ignore list.

...and in moving on - to prove my point for one final time....one custom knife maker who is on this board - makes his particular rendition of the same exact blade people have cried "foul!" about. He was at least smart enough not to call it a TB Tracker though....even though it's obvious his design is, while proportionally and subtly different, is a shape-for-shape COPY OF the TBT. This is visually undeniable...yet he is lauded as a Master and heralded as an "inspiration." Bologna. You treat EVERYONE the same - Either treat them ALL like thieves or NONE of them like thieves. And what's the difference between the two? One costs hundreds and the others are bid on at evilbay. Big flippin' deal......

What I see is a witch-hunt and smear campaign by custom makers are being undercut by - POSSIBLY - mid-tech construction, labeled as "hand forged" [when possibly/probably not]...while looking up addresses of multiple employees and confusing two people with the same first names [on purpose? Dunno....]....and then don't get the "ins and outs" of their particular business practices or provider intel like they want. Oh whah.

I ALSO NOTED THAT MY QUESTION WAS NEVER ANSWERED...just another miserable PR response with no substance. It's hypocritical behavior like this, along with the "miserable eff " attitude/writing style that is simply unnecessary.

I also see is some people having s feces-fit because they can't sell their knives when there's a cheaper alternative to theirs. The average buyer doesn't really look at "hand forged" as much as they DO look at the design and TYPE of steel. I know I don't. I see see a blade and handle design I like. Then what I look for next is "D2"..."1095" or "5160" - Then I look at the price and that's ALL I look at. I buy it or I don't.

Do the custom makers on this forum make absolute beauties? Your darned right they do. I drool over most of their creations, knowing I'll never probably own one because their prices are out of the "common man's" reality. I'm not Rockefeller and many others aren't either. And when someone sells something remotely similar [even if "named" the same and then changed later] - people have a melt down years later about it while leaving "others" completely alone. It's BS...imo.



See, now that ^^ is a good example of acceptable forum etiquette that shows a dissenting opinion about a particular subject. It is much appreciated and highly welcomed.


I said earlier that I could understand/agree about the TBT...using the name....the design [even modified] and all that. But I also said, that design is also made by a "custom guy" here on the boards. No one is screaming from the rafters about his blades are they? I don't see it...anywhere. So why is 'that guy' left alone and CFK blasted on at every single turn?

The same question is posed/unanswered in my previous post regarding the Buck 110 et al. [in post #44]. I don't see the griping about the major knife makers either. Why is that? Because they are big companies? Because they aren't "small-time/small-business, custom guys?" What's good for the goose is good for the gander....

All I'm saying is if you [meaning a 'collective' "you"] are going to call "!FOUL!" on one person making "copies" then you better cry "!FOUL!" about EVERYONE making copies. That doesn't happen though and it should. It's 'being selective' who you choose to combat...selectively go after another "little guy" [read that as competition/threat to your business/side venture] but don't run the risk of big company lawyers? It's nothing short of cowardice.
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Druid, I can't speak for everyone, but when it comes to the "Tom Brown Tracker" knife, there are a number of factors at play, in my opinion at least. I don't believe anyone has the right, custom maker or not, (excluding possibly David R. Beck, but that is another story) to use the term "Tracker" to describe that knife. Even D.R. Beck has switched to using "WSK" or wilderness survival knife to avoid conflict with TOPS, who I believe has the trademark. Mr. Beck is generally credited with and basically has developed that blade to what it is today. While it is still polite and courteous to ask his permission to use that pattern, he has basically given public permission to use that design. Obviously it is best to make it your own, but to my knowledge Mr. Beck has not prohibited anyone from using the basic pattern.

Part of the flack CFK is getting is not just using the name and design of the "Tracker" knife, but they did the same to a number of other makers, not just one. Also, everyone seems to have a hard time finding out where "in England" they have them "hand crafted" and "custom forged," all the while having a cloud of Pakistani origins swirling around them. If they came out and cleared the air definitively, it would be over. But by continuing with the "mystical forged D2" routine, they are only digging themselves deeper.
 
Sam Wilson said:
Druid, I can't speak for everyone, but when it comes to the "Tom Brown Tracker" knife, there are a number of factors at play, in my opinion at least. I don't believe anyone has the right, custom maker or not, (excluding possibly David R. Beck, but that is another story) to use the term "Tracker" to describe that knife. Even D.R. Beck has switched to using "WSK" or wilderness survival knife to avoid conflict with TOPS, who I believe has the trademark. Mr. Beck is generally credited with and basically has developed that blade to what it is today. While it is still polite and courteous to ask his permission to use that pattern, he has basically given public permission to use that design. Obviously it is best to make it your own, but to my knowledge Mr. Beck has not prohibited anyone from using the basic pattern.

Part of the flack CFK is getting is not just using the name and design of the "Tracker" knife, but they did the same to a number of other makers, not just one. Also, everyone seems to have a hard time finding out where "in England" they have them "hand crafted" and "custom forged," all the while having a cloud of Pakistani origins swirling around them. If they came out and cleared the air definitively, it would be over. But by continuing with the "mystical forged D2" routine, they are only digging themselves deeper.
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Ok. I can at least understand that.

Question on the Pakistani thing though....

a picture exists of a blade on a table...supposedly in Pakistan...supposedly "while in production."

Does no one else think that it's possible that a Pakistani ordered the blade off evilBay, deconstructed it for copy and then took a picture? Not even plausible?

How 'reputable' was the "source?" Is there a 'vested interest' in this person discrediting anyone? Is it simply a disgruntled person making wild accusations, throwing a SIMPLE pic as"proof?"

...anyway.....

When I receive the blade, I'll make as "quality" review as I can possibly make. Hell...Hopefully I can make it more than 15 minutes long/multiple parts.
 
Having been informed of the latest post, questions on the England, Germany, United Sates, "unknown origin" "thing"?

Is it possible that someone flogging hundreds of knives that look Paki is not being totally honest about the origin of the knives? I mean, has that sort of thing happened before?

How reputable is the source of the conflicting claims from CFK about how these knives are made, of what, and by whom?

Does CFK have any "vested interest" in misleading prospective customers?

What objective proof does Custom Forged Knives present that the knives are forged" somewhere, sometimes given as England, or that they are, in fact, "custom" knives rather than mass-produced?
 
druid189 said:
Ok. I can at least understand that.

Question on the Pakistani thing though....

a picture exists of a blade on a table...supposedly in Pakistan...supposedly "while in production."

Does no one else think that it's possible that a Pakistani ordered the blade off evilBay, deconstructed it for copy and then took a picture? Not even plausible?

How 'reputable' was the "source?" Is there a 'vested interest' in this person discrediting anyone? Is it simply a disgruntled person making wild accusations, throwing a SIMPLE pic as"proof?"

...anyway.....

When I receive the blade, I'll make as "quality" review as I can possibly make. Hell...Hopefully I can make it more than 15 minutes long/multiple parts.
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I was wondering if you got the knife, and how the testing has been going. I bought one of these knives and wanted to see how someone with no bias reviews it.
 
Alamor said:
I was wondering if you got the knife, and how the testing has been going. I bought one of these knives and wanted to see how someone with no bias reviews it.
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Yes I have the knife and the testing continues. I've got about 40 mins of video so far and I'm nowhere near done in testing it. There is definitely going to be 2...possibly three videos by the time I'm done.

Right now I'm 50/50 on the overall....I've got some really positive opinions on some aspects and also some 'not-so-positive' on others. I am trying to reserve judgement until I'm completely finished though.
 
druid189 said:
Yes I have the knife and the testing continues. I've got about 40 mins of video so far and I'm nowhere near done in testing it. There is definitely going to be 2...possibly three videos by the time I'm done.

Right now I'm 50/50 on the overall....I've got some really positive opinions on some aspects and also some 'not-so-positive' on others. I am trying to reserve judgement until I'm completely finished though.
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Awesome! I can't wait to watch them. I'm curious to see whether or not you think they are made in Pakistan or not. I'm not an expert by any means, but they seem like they are better made than any Pakistan knife I've ever seen.
 
Alamor said:
Awesome! I can't wait to watch them. I'm curious to see whether or not you think they are made in Pakistan or not. I'm not an expert by any means, but they seem like they are better made than any Pakistan knife I've ever seen.
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Well, I'm not a metallurgist and can't make any "empirical, scientifically proven" claims - but I have had knives made in Pakistan - "had" being the active word. They were absolute crap that I couldn't get rid of fast enough. You couldn't GIVE me a knife made in Pakistan, let alone get me to spend good money on one ever again. Put it this way - If I won one in a GAW right now, I'd ask the provider to destroy it before it even reached my door. I'd never even think of flipping it into my own GAW because I wouldn't impose that kind of pain on anyone.

Now, that being said - The knife I'm reviewing IN NO WAY resembles anything I've ever had the misfortune of handling from Pakistan. From what I can tell so far, the steel used in this blade is pretty damned tough and the [factory] edge has held up nicely to what I've done so far. I've done less testing/abuse to the Pakistani blades and damaged them almost instantly. This one [from CFK] doesn't even have marks on it and among other tasks, I've been chopping through a thick walnut limb. The fit on the handle scales alone tells me that care went into assembling it....though there are some things [overall] about this blade I'm not overly keen on and would change [if I had that power/influence].

Still...I'm trying not to reveal too much here, I will give full and unbiased opinions in the videos. I will say this though - I do not think this knife was made in Pakistan.
 
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