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Chamfered edges?

Discussion in 'Busse Combat Knives' started by Kenneth F Huls, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. duramax

    duramax KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 29, 2012
    My infi ratweiler has the edges done :) AzTim stripped one of mine for me. I posted a couple pics in Swamp Rat forum :)
     
    Kenneth F Huls likes this.
  2. dogboye

    dogboye Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    You don't have MASSIVE rusting problems by leaving the decarb on the blade?
     
  3. Kenneth F Huls

    Kenneth F Huls Gold Member Gold Member

    396
    Jul 11, 2012
    Rusting??? Not at all. The decarb on my strippers has remained constant in appearance through years of use. Well, it can get scraped up through use, but that's it.

    Interesting. Why?
     
  4. duramax

    duramax KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 29, 2012
    Without getting crazy in depth. It’s been said that the decarb layer causes or in itself rusts. By totaling removing = much less chance of rust.
     
  5. dogboye

    dogboye Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    What duramax said. I've always done my best to get rid of it. And where I don't completely rid the INFI of it, it will almost rust while you are looking at it, it seems. If you go look at the DS6 vs. AD6 thread, on the last page, you can see where I stripped my DS6. After more than an hour of sanding and polishing, it appeared totally clean. I went in, washed it well, and by the time I dried it with a dry towel, places that I hadn't completely gotten clean of decarb were showing red rust. And I mean this took, at most, only a couple of minutes. BACK outside with the Dremel and sanding/polishing. After another about 20 minutes, I thought I was finished. I put it away, thinking I was good to go. About 3 days later, I took it out to photograph to post here, as I had said in that thread I would do. You can see what I found. Some of the decarb had been left in the fuller on one side. It showed red rust. What you see in the photos is after I wiped it, and it only appears black. When I put it away 3 days prior. That fuller looked just as clean as you can see the one on the other side is. You can also see the red rust at the tang, just in front of the Res C. That had been worked extensively. To the point that the Res C has been slightly re-shaped at the front. Not enough to really tell, as I smoothed it pretty good. As tough as ResC is, it won't stand up to rotary sanding (slow speed; no heating of metal... or ResC for that matter). Anyway, just on a whim, I looked at it again this morning before I left for work. I still have some work to do on that really bad spot at the tang. But the fuller is clean on both sides now.

    Anyway, all that to say that incompletely removed decarb certainly appears to be phenomenal at rusting....

    And I guess I kinda DID go crazy in depth ... :rolleyes:
     
    WValtakis and duramax like this.
  6. Kenneth F Huls

    Kenneth F Huls Gold Member Gold Member

    396
    Jul 11, 2012
    Wow
    I am not sure what to say or think here with this info. I have several strippers that I have not removed what I believe to be "decarb" - gray "patina" that is revealed upon stripping the coating. One example: I have extensively carried and used my Skinny ASH in the field that is a stripper. I cannot count the canyons, mountains, and trails that it has descended, ascended, and traversed with me over maybe the last 6 years. Never have I gotten a speck of rust on it. Never. I am used to high carbon steel blades and when new to INFI I religiously oiled my Busses - including strippers. I gave up on it fairly quickly and now I never - never - oil INFI, without regard to whether they are satin, DC, or strippers. I do live in a very dry climate (Sonoran Desert), and now that I consider it, the INFI knives that I take into wet, soggy slot canyons have not been my strippers, but they have gotten wet in streams, rain, etc. I dry 'em off pretty quickly and thoroughly, but hearing what you two describe I just don't understand and cannot explain this.
    I am thinking I need to do some home experiments here.
     
  7. Kenneth F Huls

    Kenneth F Huls Gold Member Gold Member

    396
    Jul 11, 2012
    My experience with high carbon tool steel knives over the years (decades) has been that rust can and almost invariably will appear simply as a result of directly handling the steel unless I wipe it down (and clean with rubbing alcohol on my bestest swords) and apply a fine coat with a good oil (I use a light mineral oil - sewing machine oil, actually - on such knives (and definitely on tamahagane and oroshigane Japanese swords)). YET, I never wipe down an INFI stripper - let alone clean it with alcohol and coat it with oil - and no rust - ever.

    ???
     
  8. dogboye

    dogboye Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    I’ve got stripped SR101, bare A2, D2, M2, O1, W1 (or is that W2?), even 1095 that I have no rust problems with, all treated exactly the same, and even stored in the same location as that DS6. The only ones I’ve had any problem with are that DS6 and a SAR5. Both of which exhibited the same sort of spotty rusting where I thought I had it bare but some decarb remained. I had sanded the SAR5 til it had a noticeably thinner blade, and especially thinner behind the edge. I ended up sending it to a guy on the board here that had offered to bead blast it for me. After that, I’ve yet to oil it, and no rust.
    Now I’m thinking I need to strip another INFI, leave the full layer of decarb, and see what happens. I can fully believe that the undisturbed layer of decarb could protect the INFI, and not rust. I forget what the chemical composition of the decarb is, but it’s here on the board somewhere.
     
  9. Kenneth F Huls

    Kenneth F Huls Gold Member Gold Member

    396
    Jul 11, 2012
    Interesting, dogboye, that it was on stripped and mostly (?) decarbed blades. Yes, my stripped Skinny ASH, 3B2, and now my HOG Badger have intact decarb and no problems at all. I would be very interested in your experiment as your pondering on the effect of the full layer vs partial/remnant is the only thing that makes sense to me here. But I am no chemist! Given that decarb can't be metal (right?), then it makes no sense to me that IT rusts. I have no theory on why remnants of it would cause rusting on metal with which it has contact, though. Just always seemed to me to be a good protective layer, which I think looks like a cool tool finish as opposed to "paint."So far, years, it has worked for me. But I do not chop with those particular blades, just cut, so the decarb has not been rubbed off much at all. It has just looked cooler (to me) over the years of use.
     
    dogboye likes this.
  10. dogboye

    dogboye Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Next blade I strip, I’m leaving it. We’ll see what happens. Bookmarking this thread so I can zombie-fi it whenever that happens (might be a while). :D
     
    Kenneth F Huls and duramax like this.
  11. zombieassassin

    zombieassassin Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 1, 2015
    IMO....that steel will perform and look better after that decarb layer is sanded off.
    Still looks awesome regardless!
     
    duramax likes this.
  12. gk4ever2

    gk4ever2 Gold Member Gold Member

    May 1, 2008
    I'm neither a chemist nor metallurgist, but I have a friend named Google ;) - here is some info from Wikipedia:
    Decarburization
    The term is typically used in metallurgy, describing the reduction of the content of carbon in metals (usually steel). … The removal of carbon removes hard carbide phases resulting in a softening of the metal, primarily at the surfaces which are in contact with the decarburizing gas.
    Incidental decarburization … done during heat treatment or after rolling or forging … the material is only affected to a certain depth according to the temperature and duration of heating. … The decarburized surface material can also be removed by grinding.

    So "decarb" is steel with some of the carbon removed, and I'm guessing some other changes as well, some or all of which contribute to increased rust formation.

    This makes perfect sense based on the above. I have read where some users say that after the initial edge is removed when the knife is first resharpened, that performance is better - I suppose this makes sense also.
     
  13. JACKMANDU

    JACKMANDU Gold Member Gold Member

    694
    Feb 10, 2019
    I’m gonna do the same. I picked up a Boss Jack CG. I started the etching process and will strip it next. I intend to leave the decarb and see what happens. I’ll start a thread about it with pics. Just a heads up Dogboye. Keep an eye out for it. Maybe Sunday night.
     
    Kenneth F Huls likes this.
  14. Kenneth F Huls

    Kenneth F Huls Gold Member Gold Member

    396
    Jul 11, 2012
    Thanks for the info, gk4ever2. Interesting for sure. Still, never have I had the rust problem. But again, I live in a very arid climate and wipe wet blades off pretty quickly and thoroughly. As for "look(ing) better," zombieassassin, well, that is of course subjective - but to each their own of course! :thumbsup:
     

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