Chemistry vs. MagnaCut

Matthew Gregory said:
…but how do all of these variations impact the soul of the knife?






…and no matter how many times this is explained, it seems to fall on deaf ears.

It utterly boggles my mind that there are still people that buy a knife based on alloy, disregarding all other things. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Agreed. Blade profile is more important than blade steel. Buck proved that and published their results in a thread on BF in 2001. Unfortunately, the charts have evaporated into the ether. Perhaps Buck Knives Inc. Buck Knives Inc. could repopulate the thread? But in any case CJ Buck also posted a synopsis of their results.

Here's the thread:
CJ Buck

Thread 'CATRA Edge Testing Results'

Here is the information from the engineers at Buck. Bill Keys and Pete Quintanilla (of pcks fame). If these images do not come through here is a web address to visit... following all this is a write up that Bill Keys did on steels and angles.

http://www.buckknives.com/bldfor.html

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EFFECTS ON EDGE SHARPNESS
STEEL TYPES AND EDGE GEOMETRY

by Bill Keys
Engineering Supervisor
Buck Knives, Inc.

As with many complex issues, there are several different factors that can and do influence the...
 
So are my knives made with Crucible steels gonna skyrocket in price when the same steel is made by other manufacturers? (This is tongue in cheek, but maybe not so much having read the relevant threads here)
 
What do the experts say about L6?

Different manufacturers, different characteristics....I can think of a few steels like that, that vary. Or, is that not true

Nobody is saying that the new versions will be bad, they Might be better even?
But it's not unlikely that there will be differences, that will require Different treatments
 
Maximumbob54 said:
Is there a set quality standard for metals? Some agency that verifies certain lot and batch type checks to make sure no one in any step is receiving a substandard material?
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As already said- manufacturers will do their own tests, they likely provide a report on the chemistry composition of each batch, but the buyer is free to do their own tests.
 
Crag the Brewer said:
What do the experts say about L6?

Different manufacturers, different characteristics....I can think of a few steels like that, that vary. Or, is that not true

Nobody is saying that the new versions will be bad, they Might be better even?
But it's not unlikely that there will be differences, that will require Different treatments
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L6 is such an old steel that there were multiple versions that were combined into a single specification decades ago. In other words, they have intentionally different compositions. In this case the compositions will not change.
 
I'm certain it boils down to luck, but I've had notable differences in most if not all of the "they're exactly the same" steels that I've had multiple samples of. And I agree, chemically they are exactly the same. But as has been mentioned, some process steps can be vastly different. 204p is a prime example for me. It's never worked like M390 or 20CV. I've also had nothing but chipping problems with XHP. I certainly hope my experience is just random chance, and I do lean in that direction, but I know when I'm knife shopping and see "CTS" in front of the steel name, I think of those experiences.
 
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kylemiller said:
I'm certain it boils down to luck, but I've had notable differences in most if not all of the "they're exactly the same" steels that I've had multiple samples of. And I agree, chemically they are exactly the same. But as has been mentioned, some process steps can be vastly different. 204p is a prime example for me. It's never worked like M390 or 20CV. I've also had nothing but chipping problems with XHP. I certainly hope my experience is just random chance, and I do lean in that direction, but I know when I'm knife shopping and see "CTS" in front of the steel name, I think of those experiences.
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Kyle, that has more to do with the knives, edges, uses etc then the purely the steel itself.

The steel has not been isolated from the knife and uses to draw these conclusions that 204p will do this and M390 will do that as facts.
 
kylemiller said:
I'm certain it boils down to luck, but I've had notable differences in most if not all of the "they're exactly the same" steels that I've had multiple samples of. And I agree, chemically they are exactly the same. But as has been mentioned, some process steps can be vastly different. 204p is a prime example for me. It's never worked like M390 or 20CV. I've also had nothing but chipping problems with XHP. I certainly hope my experience is just random chance, and I do lean in that direction, but I know when I'm knife shopping and see "CTS" in front of the steel name, I think of those experiences.
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DeadboxHero said:
Kyle, that has more to do with the knives, edges, uses etc then the purely the steel itself.

The steel has not been isolated from the knife and uses to draw these conclusions that 204p will do this and M390 will do that as facts.
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What DBH said. Unless the blade profiles are exactly the same, it is VERY difficult to make a meaningful steel evaluation between two knives. The other variables which affect performance will mask the performance of the steels.
 
Danke42 said:
OK in the effort to keep the other thread from derailing an or posts being subject to alien drone abduction this thread is to discuss chemistry.

With the issues that Crucible industries are facing there is a lot of worry about some of their best steels being lost to the knife community forever.

Niagara Special Metals has noted they are sourcing steel with the same chemistry to produce knife steel orders with.

So where does the magic happen? At the very first time the powder is sprayed in? When it's rolled into sheets suitable for knife blanks? Or later when the knife makers shape and grind and heat treat?

Nature or Nurture time folks. MagnaCut is the example but it's for sure not the only desirable steel they make.
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Timing is everything.

Chemistry is full of nuance.

MagnaCut is a snapshot in timing.

Even when someone knows the formula, it takes skill to replicate a successful outcome. Skill takes money and time. Chemistry is a difficult academic to navigate, let alone use.I believe this companies' woes prove this.

So, if you can, throw your money towards their products. Maybe I'm a cynic, but money solves problems with alarming ease.
 
shinyedges said:
Can confirm, there is bad pizza 🤣.

I'm not privy to every process that Carpenter, bohler or Crucible use, I am aware they utilize different processes. Maybe despite the differences in process they are all equal and identical?
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Once you have eaten a pie in NYC they're all bad after that.......Even just across the river in Jersey...... Its TERRIBLE😖........
 
jfk1110 said:
Once you have eaten a pie in NYC they're all bad after that.......Even just across the river in Jersey...... Its TERRIBLE😖........
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Off topic but I cannot let that claim stand.

ny.eater.com

Pete Wells Says the Best Pizza in New York Is in New Jersey

The Times critic makes a case for Razza
ny.eater.com ny.eater.com

On topic, Larrin's testing has shown that the differences between the same PM steel made by different manufacturers, even with supposedly more advanced techniques, are not even noticeable. It's nothing to worry about.
 
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