Chinese clones of Chinese brands

[Armadew]

So for you, stealing is OK as long as it's from someone you don't like. Two wrongs make a right again.

I'm no saint (I'm sure this is obvious), and I will pass judgment on you for that.

Doesn't mean I don't like you, though. Cause I do.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I've asked this before, but no one bothered to answer, so I'll ask it again:

If they were really my friend I would tell them they were a moron for thinking that putting their art on the internet for the whole world to see without taking any legal steps to protect that art when art is one of the easiest things to protect. Id buy a Tshirt of their art just to mess with them. Then I would write in sharpie "stupid is as stupid does" on that shirt and wear it next time I see them. Then I hope we would laugh about it. If they cant do that Ill wait till they cool down. IMHO being a good friend isn't to coddle them and tell them they are always right. You tell a friend when they screwed up. Does that make it right? No. But who trusts the internet to do the honest thing when someone puts something out there. Its almost asking for it to be open source. Just like the girl who listens to her boyfriend when he pulls out the cell phone camera and promises he wont share the video with "anyone". Yeah because he means to not just show anyone but rather everyone. Or the guy who thinks he is going to make a "leave Britney alone" video and not be ridiculed for the rest of his natural born life? The one thing we are taught about the internet is that its forever. And you don't put something out there unless you are willing to let it go. But that is just how I see it. And I respect if you don't. And yes, I have had my ideas taken. A couple times. I wouldn't be a millionaire but I would be better off than I am now. At the end of the day I blame myself.

 

[PURPLEDC]

So for you, stealing is OK as long as it's from someone you don't like. Two wrongs make a right again.

I'm no saint (I'm sure this is obvious), and I will pass judgment on you for that.

Doesn't mean I don't like you, though. Cause I do.

Fair enough You just don't want me copying you.

 

[Frotier76]

Concerning this whole "clone ethics" discussion...

Why is it not frowned upon for the American made knife manufacturers to feed off each other?

Let's be honest here...

*Benchmade bought out Lone Wolf Knives and turned them into a red class brand.They also filtered the remaining designs of said knife brand through the HK line.

*Benchmade also bought the trademark for the Rolling Lock by REKAT to ward off competition.The dual omega spring design wasn't hard to replicate...other companies became inspired from the benefit of an ambidextrous design.

*The Spyderco hole deployment method? several USA companies did it and still are

*If you bought a Schrade USA LB7 or 7OT over the Buck 110...did you buy a clone...no?....because it looks a little different?think about that.

*Didn't Schrade USA close the Imperial plant in 1986 and put people out of work?...I believe they did.

*Didn't Camillus stop paying their employees after quite a bit of lay-offs in 2006/2007?

I could go on and on,but here's the point.You guys act as if these American manufacturers haven't went to the means of suing,and swindling each other in some form or another.Only a person in denial could turn the cheek and preach ethics about an outsider doing the same thing.Neither is better than the other.

 

[Sergeua]

Heres chinese axis for you

 

[Frotier76]

Heres chinese axis for you

Okay you're showing a video of a Chinese axis lock.For starters Ganzo hasn't marketed their design to handle 'x' amount of lbs. through their design.It's just an ambidextrous function so you can read into it how you will.However here's a nice video of Benchmade's Axis Lock failure...

I think this should remind people what fixed blades are for.

 

[Sergeua]

You are correct ganzos marketing doesn't give a crap about your fingers. You can take their knife apart and fix it so it doesn't fold, but they don't care to do it for you.

 

[AtechReviews]

Heres chinese axis for you

I'm sure you know who this guy is (he was a member on this forum as well).
In this video he tests the Ganzo G704:

And here, a few years later he tests the backspacer on the Benchmade 810 Contego.
Watch a bit further to 0:59 to see the point (and the blood):

This actually made the guy quit making YouTube videos and his famous hard use tests.
I think the videos speak for themselves here.

To be honest, Ganzo did have a problem with their locks somewhere around the G72X series.
They have addressed the issue with the later locks starting from the G739 model and up (part of the reasons I like Ganzo is because they constantly improve).
I had the G753 and tested it myself. It held very well and didn't fold.

 

[Frotier76]

You are correct ganzos marketing doesn't give a crap about your fingers. You can take their knife apart and fix it so it doesn't fold, but they don't care to do it for you.

Considering the Benchmade Axis Lock failure...I think I'd be more p'oed if it came from a knife brand that sells their knives for hundreds of dollars.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Heres chinese axis for you

So do stupid tests and bad stuff happens? There are so many variables to how that video proves nothing. There are failure videos for lots of well respected knives. And just like those knives sometimes defective merch gets out into the public. I still say the guy who did those tests could just have easily had that happen with a benchmade. Also i have had many kershaw and zt lock failures. More than any other brand. Do they not care about their customers?

 

[PirateSeulb]

Concerning this whole "clone ethics" discussion...

Why is it not frowned upon for the American made knife manufacturers to feed off each other?

Let's be honest here...

*Benchmade bought out Lone Wolf Knives and turned them into a red class brand.They also filtered the remaining designs of said knife brand through the HK line.

*Benchmade also bought the trademark for the Rolling Lock by REKAT to ward off competition.The dual omega spring design wasn't hard to replicate...other companies became inspired from the benefit of an ambidextrous design.

A keyword there is bought BM bought the companies and/or rights to those designs it isn't a clone the original company became part of BM or BM legally got the rights to it. There is nothing fishy or unethical about that. Sometimes how a company is aquired is fishy and/or unethical and I don't know the story on these particular examples for this.

*The Spyderco hole deployment method? several USA companies did it and still are

I don't know if Spyderco was the first to do it but they were the first to put a patent on it and secure the rights to it and to my knowledge no US company is using the "Spyderco Hole" w/o paying Spyderco for the rights to use it.

*If you bought a Schrade USA LB7 or 7OT over the Buck 110...did you buy a clone...no?....because it looks a little different?think about that.

I would refer you to this thread as to me the Buck 110 design is old and at this point fair game for "cloning" I am not even certain that it is the original for the design mostly do to having little to no knowledge of it's history.

*Didn't Schrade USA close the Imperial plant in 1986 and put people out of work?...I believe they did.

That is a different matter to cloning and old if they did this I think that was poor on their part at that time but it doesn't mean they still operate the same today there is only so long you can hold things against a company in my opinion.

*Didn't Camillus stop paying their employees after quite a bit of lay-offs in 2006/2007?

I also don't know about this but is a different and old matter now.

I could go on and on,but here's the point.You guys act as if these American manufacturers haven't went to the means of suing,and swindling each other in some form or another.Only a person in denial could turn the cheek and preach ethics about an outsider doing the same thing.Neither is better than the other.

You are right that US companies are no saints but generally they work within the laws and enter those gray areas where it isn't exactly an ethical practice but it legal. The issue with clones is often they are really toting that legal line or the flat out cross it and steal from manufacturers and designers. There is also more ignorance amongst general knife buyers to make it easier for them to fall victim to a clone. The problems only share the common point of questions about ethics otherwise it is a separate matter and it isn't like people are saying that these US companies are perfect models and pillars of the business world. The problem of clones can effect makers and manufacturers in all places not just the US.