Chinese "food chain"

So far, I own a couple Reates and a couple WE knives. My only complaint is not with the knives themselves, but with many reviewers who say things like "This $100 knife from WE easily beats out many $400 knives." I have not found that to be the case. That isn't meant to take anything away from the knives, but I need to be careful about the hype machine.

What sold me? The Reate District 9. I picked up a couple of these used, and was just blown away. I then picked up a Steelcraft/Begg (made by Reate) Kwaiken, and my conversion was nearly complete.

I'm not 100% convinced that the blade steel is "superb" in the case of WE. It seems to me, thus far, that I have to sharpen up my WE knives with more frequency than other knives I own - include Reate. But: I'm not convinced of that, yet.
 
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Listen, I understand about counterfeiting, and I didn't think this was it. Again, you've all ignored the point that it's stamped 9cr18mov. How would a counterfeiter make that mistake? If you keep ignoring that point, I'll ignore you back. It's called reciprocation. I'm making a logical argument and if you instead choose to ignore it, then you have no argument. It's really that simple.

I neither payed a premium price, nor would I. Did you miss the part about it being $40?
I knew it was 9cr18mov, and I would have bought it on pure physical characteristics alone. USA Spartan did not lose a penny from me.

If you want to be lawyers, then be lawyers. If you want to make the more subtle point that a clone is wrong because patent law should apply to a shape, in addition to what it already does, then make that point. I don't think a clone which uses a shape is guilty of counterfeiting. If you want to make that point, then make that point.

I'm not being 'that guy', I support and buy from local makers when I have the budget for it. You all are being too quick to be judge/jury/executioner on demonizing me.
 
The fact that it is using the Spartan logo and design means that it is being sold specifically to dupe and distract business away from the legal owners of that brand (otherwise known as IP theft). It doesn't really matter that it is marked 9cr18mov. They're selling a counterfeit product, why do you trust them just because they put some numbers and letters on the blade, how do you know that's actually the steel? They lied about other stuff, they probably lied about that. You are being "that guy"
 
dirc said:
Listen, I understand about counterfeiting, and I didn't think this was it. Again, you've all ignored the point that it's stamped 9cr18mov. How would a counterfeiter make that mistake? If you keep ignoring that point, I'll ignore you back. It's called reciprocation. I'm making a logical argument and if you instead choose to ignore it, then you have no argument. It's really that simple.

I neither payed a premium price, nor would I. Did you miss the part about it being $40?
I knew it was 9cr18mov, and I would have bought it on pure physical characteristics alone. USA Spartan did not lose a penny from me.

If you want to be lawyers, then be lawyers. If you want to make the more subtle point that a clone is wrong because patent law should apply to a shape, in addition to what it already does, then make that point. I don't think a clone which uses a shape is guilty of counterfeiting. If you want to make that point, then make that point.

I'm not being 'that guy', I support and buy from local makers when I have the budget for it. You all are being too quick to be judge/jury/executioner on demonizing me.
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You could not be more wrong. It said Spartan on it but was not made by Spartan. You bought an illegal counterfeit knife. Case closed.
 
dirc said:
Listen, I understand about counterfeiting, and I didn't think this was it. Again, you've all ignored the point that it's stamped 9cr18mov. How would a counterfeiter make that mistake? If you keep ignoring that point, I'll ignore you back. It's called reciprocation. I'm making a logical argument and if you instead choose to ignore it, then you have no argument. It's really that simple.

I neither payed a premium price, nor would I. Did you miss the part about it being $40?
I knew it was 9cr18mov, and I would have bought it on pure physical characteristics alone. USA Spartan did not lose a penny from me.

If you want to be lawyers, then be lawyers. If you want to make the more subtle point that a clone is wrong because patent law should apply to a shape, in addition to what it already does, then make that point. I don't think a clone which uses a shape is guilty of counterfeiting. If you want to make that point, then make that point.

I'm not being 'that guy', I support and buy from local makers when I have the budget for it. You all are being too quick to be judge/jury/executioner on demonizing me.
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Actually you are being that guy and you did knowingly buy a clone and you have been here long enough to know that talking about clones in any shape or form is verboten. Don't argue don't justify just don't talk about it.
 
dirc said:
Listen, I understand about counterfeiting, and I didn't think this was it. Again, you've all ignored the point that it's stamped 9cr18mov. How would a counterfeiter make that mistake? If you keep ignoring that point, I'll ignore you back. It's called reciprocation. I'm making a logical argument and if you instead choose to ignore it, then you have no argument. It's really that simple.
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It's entirely possible that the manufacturer stamped the blade 9Cr and the vendor added the Spartan stamp. You're being a little naive with your reverse logic. Counterfeiters are brazen and don't give a crap if they get "figured out". There, sadly, really is no logic to your argument.
dirc said:
I neither payed a premium price, nor would I. Did you miss the part about it being $40?
I knew it was 9cr18mov, and I would have bought it on pure physical characteristics alone. USA Spartan did not lose a penny from me.
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Your logic is wrong here also. You and everyone who purchased that 9Cr counterfeit took advantage of the resources spent by Spartan blades to design, prototype, manufacture and market the original knife. Not being in the market to purchase the original is irrelevant and a weaksauce excuse. You still took advantage of the work of others without compensating those others. This is wrong on the most basic of moral levels.
dirc said:
If you want to be lawyers, then be lawyers. If you want to make the more subtle point that a clone is wrong because patent law should apply to a shape, in addition to what it already does, then make that point. I don't think a clone which uses a shape is guilty of counterfeiting. If you want to make that point, then make that point.

I'm not being 'that guy', I support and buy from local makers when I have the budget for it. You all are being too quick to be judge/jury/executioner on demonizing me.
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We may seem a little quick to "pile on" when a new guy shows up and tries to defend a counterfeit or clone. Please don't take it personal. As you spend more time around here and gain some insight into the industry and the irreparable damage cloning does, you'll probably come to see it with the degree of vehemence that most of us do. Fact of the matter is, at your budget there are many good choices that don't rely on the theft of talented designs and upright manufacturers.

If you don't change your outlook and continue to support counterfeits, you may want to find a knife outlet that isn't as hard core as Blade Forums.

End of day, there is no justification for clones/counterfeits that holds water under the bright light of scrutiny. Read some of the at-length discussions we've had here and you may understand better.

Good luck.
 
dirc said:
Listen, I understand about counterfeiting, and I didn't think this was it. Again, you've all ignored the point that it's stamped 9cr18mov. How would a counterfeiter make that mistake? If you keep ignoring that point, I'll ignore you back. It's called reciprocation. I'm making a logical argument and if you instead choose to ignore it, then you have no argument. It's really that simple.

I neither payed a premium price, nor would I. Did you miss the part about it being $40?
I knew it was 9cr18mov, and I would have bought it on pure physical characteristics alone. USA Spartan did not lose a penny from me.
Click to expand...

You keep saying that Spartan isn’t losing a penny from you because you were never going to buy a real one anyway. That is an argument you don’t want to make.
 
RLDubbya said:
So far, I own a couple Reates and a couple WE knives. My only complaint is not with the knives themselves, but with many reviewers who say things like "This $100 knife from WE easily beats out many $400 knives." I have not found that to be the case. That isn't meant to take anything away from the knives, but I need to be careful about the hype machine.
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Yeah, but you get those comments about budget knives and really anything under $100 "fit & finish better than than knives that cost over $200 with performance to match".
 
Ourorboros said:
Yeah, but you get those comments about budget knives and really anything under $100 "fit & finish better than than knives that cost over $200 with performance to match".
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I get the top notch fit and finish, I've had two sub-$50 Chinese knives without a single flaw outside the actual design itself having elements I'd like changed, like lefty clip positioning. Performance matching a $200 knife is just an outright lie though, even perfect D2 or 9Cr will fail miserably compared to high end PM steels and expecting PM steel performance. They will perform perfectly fine if done right, but you will never get M390 performance out of D2 or 9Cr. Anybody trying to say otherwise is delusional .
 
I can atest to WE and Rike as I own one of each of their knives. I own the Eschaton and 1508s respectively and have to say they are excellent knives. Obviously the materials used speak for themselves but the quality is what this thread seems concerned about so I must ease your minds by saying that both knives are excellent quality and function very well. I havent carried or used the eschaton but can tell you the action is near perfect or perfect dependng on perspective. I have been carrying and using my Rike 1508s for over two years now and it’s still one of my favorite knives.

I often wonder when people say that a knife is excellent, what kind of person are they? Do they normally carry a $2500+ custom, a $1500 shiro, a $150 benchmade or a $40 kershaw? It’s all about perspective so when you guys say it’s a great knife or it completely sucks, please give us some context. For me, I also collect and carry knives like the giantmouse gmp4, arcform slimfoot-dama+copper, crk umnumzaan, a couple benchmades, etc.

I just purchased the Maxace Ptilopsis Hybrid Integral model MP02 (currently en route from Blade HQ). I tried to do as much research as I could about the knife and the company but obviously there’s not too much. The MP02 was only announced last July so it isnt even a year old. I decided to take a chance beacuse the materials are there for the price and I do have faith in some Chinese companies.

What I did find through research is that they are their own company and NOT owned by Stedemon like someone said at the beginning of this thread. They do however get some (not all) of their budget knives like the Balance made by them. It also appears that the owner Chan Adan has a collab history with other manufacturers. (Please correct me if I’m wrong here)
 
archieblue said:
None for me, thanks! I say “support your local knifemaker.” Spyderco’s Golden facility is just over 2 hours away from me and I branch out from there... usually to Idaho or Ohio.
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Nothing wrong with supporting local but I don’t think it’s healthy to have a “local or nothing” or “local is best” mindset. Spyderco and Chris Reeves make great knives (both whom I have knife investments in). However, if I had the local or nothing mindset and supported only local makers within x miles, I wouldnt be here agreeing that the two aforementioned companies are great. I love craft beer and I love supporting my local breweries but to say they are the best in the world would just be ignorance. Same applies to knives.
 
dkb45 said:
I get the top notch fit and finish, I've had two sub-$50 Chinese knives without a single flaw outside the actual design itself having elements I'd like changed, like lefty clip positioning. Performance matching a $200 knife is just an outright lie though, even perfect D2 or 9Cr will fail miserably compared to high end PM steels and expecting PM steel performance. They will perform perfectly fine if done right, but you will never get M390 performance out of D2 or 9Cr. Anybody trying to say otherwise is delusional .
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I'm not arguing with that, just passing on an observation. But all reviews have to be taken with a grain of salt. That's why I like review sites with an archive - then I look for knives I've used.
I'll echo the build quality comment too. Plenty of budget knives are built right within the limits of design & material.
 
I'd like to add a note: the Chinese websites (even the bigger well known ones) selling these knives directly are horrible... they are really horrible at labeling the steel in many cases. The webpage title/banner or whatever says DC53 steel, then in the description you see D2, and then in some cases you see 9cr18mov elsewhere on the same page for the same knife... so which is it? This is why I've stayed away from them in general (with my 1 exception years ago...)

For what it's worth, I never intended to defend counterfeit knives. That is not my position, nor was it. I bought my only 9cr18mov blade years ago when I needed something cheap (and I wanted to try it since back then it was touted as the improved 440c steel), and years ago I could not have afforded a $200+ knife. I ended up with a counterfeit, but it was not my intent, I'm not trying to ask for a pardon, it is was it is. This was years before I found bladeforums also fwiw.
 
dirc said:
I'd like to add a note: the Chinese websites (even the bigger well known ones) selling these knives directly are horrible... they are really horrible at labeling the steel in many cases. The webpage title/banner or whatever says DC53 steel, then in the description you see D2, and then in some cases you see 9cr18mov elsewhere on the same page for the same knife... so which is it? This is why I've stayed away from them in general (with my 1 exception years ago...)

For what it's worth, I never intended to defend counterfeit knives. That is not my position, nor was it. I bought my only 9cr18mov blade years ago when I needed something cheap (and I wanted to try it since back then it was touted as the improved 440c steel), and years ago I could not have afforded a $200+ knife. I ended up with a counterfeit, but it was not my intent, I'm not trying to ask for a pardon, it is was it is. This was years before I found bladeforums also fwiw.
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I am just sincerely glad you didn't use F&F to purchase it...geez, the forum would have exploded!

:D
 
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