Chinese junk or what?

markksr said:
Dishonest business practices are not an inherent facet of capitalism, no matter what the likes of Shmecky and his ilk would have us believe.
Click to expand...

Ouch! Getting testy now?

Actually, dishonest business practices are very much inherent part of capitalism. I defy you to find any capitalist system without dishonest business practices to be found somewhere. Capitalist systems depend on a certain degree of freedom, and where people are free to be honest, people are also free to be dishonest.

But dishonesty isn't really the issue with Sanrenmu knives. Nor necessarily with copying. To make such a claim is dishonest in itself.
 
So uh, where can I get me one of those Sanrenmu 710 Sebenza knock offs? :p None on the bay today.

I just blew my wad on a full size Ruckus so its slim pickins for a while and a knife for $10 sounds pretty dang good about now.
 
Yes, it is Chinese junk, and no, i am not talking about a type of boat. I will do my best to never purchase anything made in China because many of the products that are made there are direct rip-offs of others designs. Frankly, the 'arguments' by those who are advocating purchasing these knock-offs just reinforce my beliefs. If anyone is actually open minded on this topic they need go no further then to read the eight pages of this post and decide for themselves. I see theft of a design as theft of a design. It does not matter that the theft is not legally fought.

Once again, if these companies can produce 'such high quality products' then they should do it, and stop stealing designs. Until they do, and stop stealing designs every knife made by these companies is junk.

And yes, I will pray for you, regardless of how 'pointless' you think my 'religious platitudes' are. I will pray for you, and will continue to, because I believe in prayer whereas you, apparently, believe in nothing. I find it fun that Shecky can lecture me on 'honest conversation' when he is advocating theft.
 
Last edited:
I believe people at Spyderco, Buck, etc are fully aware that their designs are being copied. They can pursue legal action if they want to.

Having discussed piracy with software developers, some choose the path of innovation (keep making new features), some choose both legal and creativity. Outstanding people like Sal of Spyderco has earned the respect of knife enthusiasts. By this, he saves a lot on the legal route, because people that appreciate it will still buy Spyderco, without pursuing the legal route (which can be costly, and cross border situation makes it worse). As such, Sanrenmu is not a threat to Spyderco market.

On the other side, buyers are free to exercise their option. It's an inherent nature of free market.

Dishonesty as much as honesty is also part of the free market (or life as much as human is involved). We all have seen how it works in the financial meltdown recently. Dishonesty might win short term, but in the long run integrity wins. As long as manufacturer is not cheating customer, it's other manufacturer right and obligation ton uphold the copyright, patent, etc. If customer is being cheated with false information/marketing, it's also the right & obligation of customer to sue the company.

Sanremu case is unique as it fals into the darker grey area. I didn't know 611 is a copy of Buck design up to now. Will I buy Buck? Yes, if I need and it's available at decent price (down here, it's considered collectibles & the price is doubled or tripled) , and I can afford it.

So, to each his own.
 
Just to enrich the comparison on companies cheating customers:

HTC TyTn II: the video accelerator driver was not delivered, although the chipset is capable to do so. This results in sub par performance of the phone in playing high quality movie and games. However, since the manufacturer didn't explicitly say it should be superior to previous device (on different chip), there's no legal ground for customers to go to. However, good business sense dictates HTC should provide that to alleviate customer grief. Till date, it was not done yet.

Personally, I don't consider this unethical, but more on different business judgement. Tytn II is still one of the best seller anyway (as most customer doesn't care about the 'missing' feature)

Sony Ericsson: on UIQ3 first generation devices (P990, M600 and W950), it was advertised with 'interactive/dynamic wallpaper' that never got delivered. The company even revised the white paper of P990 twice and removed the items they did not deliver. Further, the support of the phones was abandoned even though there're still bugs on certain areas.
Users have come together, drafting a letter to new CEO (Komiyama) and delivered that by courier. No response, No Action. (just google Open Letter to Sony Ericsson)

I consider this cheating. And will never buy SE device anymore. In contrast, some members of the letter signer still buys new SE device because they need the features offered. In this case, my take is: to each his own ;)
SE simply didn't realize what Sal knows: excellent support wins in long run. It's well known in marketing that earning new customer takes 8 times resources than keeping existing (see SE last quarter losses. I'm happy :D )

Apple: with iPhone, they made breakthrough in user interface that's so intuitive. All others then follow suite (imitate that). Instead of spending effort to sue the other companies, they simply improve on the product. Apple lovers will definitely stays and from that, they earn the income enough to sustain continuous innovation ..

Hope that settles the dust.

PS: I did further research: the design of 611 is after Buck Nobleman, but the smaller SRM (1 inch blade) is after College. However, both come in different size than original. Buck Nobleman is 2.5 inch, while 611 is 2 inch only. College is 1.5 inch, while the copy is 1 inch only.
Now the interesting part is during the research I found Buck Gent. Couple of years ago, Zippo (an US company) has folders that's exactly (size and shape) as Buck Gent. Now who's copying whom? :D
 
Last edited:
Chris,
This is a rather insightful post, although some have argued that by now talking about phones your arguments are pointless.

"PS: I did further research: the design of 611 is after Buck Nobleman, but the smaller SRM (1 inch blade) is after College. However, both come in different size than original. Buck Nobleman is 2.5 inch, while 611 is 2 inch only. College is 1.5 inch, while the copy is 1 inch only.
Now the interesting part is during the research I found Buck Gent. Couple of years ago, Zippo (an US company) has folders that's exactly (size and shape) as Buck Gent. Now who's copying whom? "

On the Zippo copying note, it is possible that Buck simply made the knives for Zippo. The same thing is currently happening with Harley Davidson knives and Benchmade. Another example is the Heckler & Koch knives, also currently made by Benchmade and in the past were made by Boker. I really do not know the exact details of the Zippo example but with these other examples the companies involved seem pretty upfront with the information.
 
This my first post and maybe my last if I am banned for being practical.

I began this collection last year because I didn't have a knife when I needed it and sometimes chewed and or keyed my way into a recently received package.

I am a practical purchaser (cheap) so Cold Steel seemed like a fair product for my money. I have about twenty Cold Steel knives now and I am pleased with all them for the money spent.

I buy wholesale as I own a corporation and have that ability and option.

Then I learned about KA-BAR and Ethan Becker. I have all the current KA-BAR Becker knives. I believe Ethan Becker offers a fair deal on his knife designs and I like the design and will continue to purchase his designs in the future because I believe he is fair.

I recently wanted a good folding knife as most of the ones I have are fixed. I learned of The Sebenza but choked on the price. As I searched for a better deal I learned of Sanrenmu SRMKNIVES and bought a few of them and for my money I am pleased.

I also purchased about a dozen Mora of Sweden knives and wonder why I need anything else in a knife for practical use.

Anyway these are just my opinions and observations thus far. . .
 
Last edited:
wildjim

Welcome

In my opinion the reason I do not buy cheap knives are the trust factor. I had too many cheap knives fail on me. (by cheap I mean knockoffs)

On a lighter note... though If you saved all your money you could have bought a Sebenza by now!:D:)
 
not intended to read thru 7 pages of flame, sorry

Sanremu branded knives are not junk, quite decent quality
far from Sebenza league, of course
just my .02 (or 68 kopecks ;) )
 
Lenny_Goofoff said:
not intended to read thru 7 pages of flame, sorry

Sanremu branded knives are not junk, quite decent quality
far from Sebenza league, of course
just my .02 (or 68 kopecks ;) )
Click to expand...

Agreed, Lenny . :)

From what I've read here, I'd buy one if I could find it at a local B&M.
BTW why hasn't this thread been moved to Good-Bad-&-Ugly, Whine & Cheese, or the 'Ethical/Moral Knives Dilemma" forum ?
 
marthinus said:
wildjim

Welcome

In my opinion the reason I do not buy cheap knives are the trust factor. I had too many cheap knives fail on me. (by cheap I mean knockoffs)

On a lighter note... though If you saved all your money you could have bought a Sebenza by now!:D:)
Click to expand...

You are right and I am sure The Sebenza is well made with a great steel blade and titanium frame and I admire and respect the craftmanship but its not worth the price to me as a practical utility knife.

I hope to get a folder designed by Ethan Becker someday as his pricing is more inline with my sensibility and budget.
 
Last edited:
shecky said:
Actually, dishonest business practices are very much inherent part of capitalism. I defy you to find any capitalist system without dishonest business practices to be found somewhere. Capitalist systems depend on a certain degree of freedom, and where people are free to be honest, people are also free to be dishonest.
Click to expand...

Yep. It's all about convincing people to part with their money. Sometimes sales are better when one takes liberties with the truth. Heck, we don't need most of the things we buy anyway...
 
As far as copying a design is concerned I'm sure no one here has a loveless designed drop point in their collection, only one of the most famous designs copyed, almost every custom maker does one. What about jess horn designs? I see so many people making knives that aren't their original designs, their being copied because there great designs. By the way china doesn't have copyright laws.
I am again'st people counterfiting brands, saying its something that its not.
What about the trapper design, is case the only one who makes them, I think not.
 
jwtintin00 said:
I have a SanRenMu 611 knife and it is quite good.So i am unsure what the fuss is.
Click to expand...

Welcome to bladeforums, congrats on your first post. It's in a thread that died 5years ago, search function (or google) is good but remember to double check the dates before posting. Were all victims of doing this at some time or another so no worries.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top