Chinese knives

So what you are saying is, you support thieves, if its a knock off of some sorts?

sorry that i dont like letter openers, i still stand by it.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
And I have a $65 Spyderco in my pocket that will almost certainly outcut every one of them. I hear lots of people claim X is a 'great slicer' only to see fairly average results due to mediocre geometry. There are some really good ones that are made in China, the Exskelibur being one example, but they've remained the exception rather than the rule. As of now I find the vast majority of nicer Chinese made knives seem to place form well above function and, as such, not my cup of tea. Not picking on China here, as there are loads of companies in various countries that do the same, but I haven't yet seen a Chinese company that seems dedicated to building a line of excellent cutting tools.
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I have plenty of Spyderco knives, which one is the $65 one in your pocket?

The Ratata I'm carrying today is 0.016" just behind the edge bevel, according to my calipers. It's a tall, full flat ground blade and I assure you, it's a great slicer. Have you handled any of the knives you're saying I'm wrong about?

Out of curiosity, what is it about this knife's blade that you think has "mediocre geometry"?

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If I put a screaming edge on one of my small Opinels it will out-cut literally every Spyderco knife I own, FWIW. Thin to win and all that. I don't argue that there are many tacticool-style thick-bladed wedges being sold today, but I'd argue that American companies are just as guilty of putting out chunky poor-performing knives as anyone (e.g. MKT, lol).
 
evilgreg said:
I have plenty of Spyderco knives, which one is the $65 one in your pocket?

The Ratata I'm carrying today is 0.016" just behind the edge bevel, according to my calipers. It's a tall, full flat ground blade and I assure you, it's a great slicer. Have you handled any of the knives you're saying I'm wrong about?

Out of curiosity, what is it about this knife's blade that you think has "mediocre geometry"?

If I put a screaming edge on one of my small Opinels it will out-cut literally every Spyderco knife I own, FWIW. Thin to win and all that. I don't argue that there are many tacticool-style thick-bladed wedges being sold today, but I'd argue that American companies are just as guilty of putting out chunky poor-performing knives as anyone (e.g. MKT, lol).
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Nice! The higher end Chinese knives I've handled haven't been nearly that good. I'm carrying the Urban in M390, but regardless of your Ratata, I stand by my statement that it is the exception rather than the rule. That said, companies like Spyderco make knives that cut well first and everything else is secondary. I don't know of any Chinese company with that philosophy. As for the American companies that do that too, yeah, I know, I've said as much in each one of my posts.
 
Mo2 said:
China just needs to stop making clones, copies, homage etc. the cheaper knives are also using sub par mystery materials.

these knives you mention are good, great and getting better. but not as a whole. a huge handful of them are excellent.

my personal favs are from Reate, WE, Rike for high quality. the other brands are mid quality. maxace I have not tried but way too expensive from the prices I've seen, however good quality from what everyone is saying. unsure why they cost more than we knives in almost every case.

Edit: The knives from Boker and CRKT and the sorts, are very low quality letter openers. i wouldnt touch them with a 10 foot pole. others have different opinions, but i have bought them and will never buy them again or even remotely recommend them.
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I have found chinese knives commissioned by domestic brands to be where the garbage is too. Crkt wants cheap knives that look high end from a distance. Other brands only utilize china for the cheapest stuff they offer. The only time i buy chinese is when they are a chinese owned and operated brand. The only companies i see using the good factories for american designs are individual knifemakers like todd begg and designers like liong mah.
 
This thread is exactly what I was referring to when I said U.S. makers are going to have to watch their backs. Chinese companies are quickly catching up in terms of quality and winning in terms of price. The USA is going to have to step it's game up unless they want the only feature of their production knives that sets them apart to be the "made in usa" sticker.
 
Mo2 said:
So what you are saying is, you support thieves, if its a knock off of some sorts?

sorry that i dont like letter openers, i still stand by it.
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The problem in this discussion is where does the line get drawn. It really seems to be different for everyone. Some dont care if a design is borrowed as long as no counterfeit logos are used. Others say nope, if it copies anything its not ok. Problem with the later is so much copying is going on in the whole world of knives that its hard to just point the finger at china and cry foul. Especially when paid dealers of this forum sell clones and certain knife companies of this forum copy designs all the time. Boker being a HUGE offender in that regard. Microtech is another. Supposedly brous has taken ip as well. I just see too much forgiveness to companies not based in china to sit there and put all the blame on them. My viewpoint is its not even illegal to buy counterfeit goods for personal use. I personally dont like counterfeits. But i also dont subscribe to the idea that if you make a knife you can tell another person they cant make a knife that looks like that. If that was the case ninety percent of people starting as knifemakers would be chastised for ripping off randall and loveless.

If you cant legally protect it with IP laws then its not actually IP. Some just go so far with it if its a chinese knife but you bring up other instances and its nothing but crickets chirping because there is no rational defense for why its ok for some and not others. But even if i fly to china and buy a counterfeit knife i can bring it back and use it and no law was broken. My knife hobby is not my life. Its a hobby. Knifemakers, dealers and manufacturers are not my personal friends i feel an obligation to defend or go to bat for. They provide a product that i am buying. No relationship is taking place. So just buy what I like. If I choose to buy a clone instead of the genuine article its because i have no plan and never did of buying the original. So they werent getting a sale either way. But even then its a design that has no legal protection for a reason. And with no logos or other actual protected IP i dont see any harm in people enjoying a product they bough for personal use.
 
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Insipid Moniker said:
Nice! The higher end Chinese knives I've handled haven't been nearly that good. I'm carrying the Urban in M390, but regardless of your Ratata, I stand by my statement that it is the exception rather than the rule. That said, companies like Spyderco make knives that cut well first and everything else is secondary. I don't know of any Chinese company with that philosophy. As for the American companies that do that too, yeah, I know, I've said as much in each one of my posts.
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To give you an idea of the rough dimensions of the Ratata blade, it's very close the same spine thickness as your Urban (0.11" vs 0.13") but it's a taller, much longer blade (3.6" length). It's full flat ground, and fairly thin behind the edge and I've found it performs great for me.

That said, it is a Russian design with the parts produced in China, so it doesn't really go against your theory that Chinese designs are all about looks over performance (and the Kizer Gemini is a Laconico design as well). I see some of the designs from WE and I love them (e.g. 604) but then I see others and go into full wtf (e.g. 605, 619, etc.) so maybe you have a point about Chinese brands in general. If that's the case I can only guess they're making what sells best. People love tacticool stuff, look how much of it is sold.
 
My WE618 is .017" behind the edge. Extremely well ground, and clearly ground to cut well, given the high grind and distal taper.
 
PURPLEDC said:
The problem in this discussion is where does the line get drawn. It really seems to be different for everyone. Some dont care if a design is borrowed as long as no counterfeit logos are used. Others say nope, if it copies anything its not ok. Problem with the later is so much copying is going on in the whole world of knives that its hard to just point the finger at china and cry foul. Especially when paid dealers of this forum sell clones and certain knife companies of this forum copy designs all the time. Boker being a HUGE offender in that regard. Microtech is another. Supposedly brous has taken ip as well. I just see too much forgiveness to companies not based in china to sit there and put all the blame on them. My viewpoint is its not even illegal to buy counterfeit goods for personal use. I personally dont like counterfeits. But i also dont subscribe to the idea that if you make a knife you can tell another person they cant make a knife that looks like that. If that was the case ninety percent of people starting as knifemakers would be chastised for ripping off randall and loveless.

If you cant legally protect it with IP laws then its not actually IP. Some just go so far with it if its a chinese knife but you bring up other instances and its nothing but crickets chirping because there is no rational defense for why its ok for some and not others. But even if i fly to china and buy a counterfeit knife i can bring it back and use it and no law was broken. My knife hobby is not my life. Its a hobby. Knifemakers, dealers and manufacturers are not my personal friends i feel an obligation to defend or go to bat for. They provide a product that i am buying. No relationship is taking place. So just buy what I like. If I choose to buy a clone instead of the genuine article its because i have no plan and never did of buying the original. So they werent getting a sale either way. But even then its a design that has no legal protection for a reason. And with no logos or other actual protected IP i dont see any harm in people enjoying a product they bough for personal use.
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Exactly . Thanks !
 
We dont support copies, homages, replica's, etc here. go elsewhere if you want to support theft.
 
Here are few i have on hand that i can share. The popped zit knife is ugly but really well made.


 
I have quite a few knives made by Chinese companies and it all started with Kizer 3404 in February 2014. I'm not counting my Spyderco knives made in Taichung, Taiwan which goes further back. Kizer just keeps improving and they cover the budget line, intermediate and limited editions. Reate is stellar but they really do not make much that I carry except for the Todd Begg Steelcraft Mini Bodega. I tried Stedemon and Proelia but they were not to make liking in terms of quality. I've heard good things about Rike and WE. Rike's color schemes are too polarizing for me but I'll be getting a WE soon. Also, have several CKF which are made in China but finished in Russia. Recently, got a Factor Absolute 1 and it has excellent quality and a relative bargain.
 
Mo2 said:
We dont support copies, homages, replica's, etc here. go elsewhere if you want to support theft.
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Who the hay is "we" kimosobe ? Please look up the meaning of "forum".
 
evilgreg said:
To give you an idea of the rough dimensions of the Ratata blade, it's very close the same spine thickness as your Urban (0.11" vs 0.13") but it's a taller, much longer blade (3.6" length). It's full flat ground, and fairly thin behind the edge and I've found it performs great for me.

That said, it is a Russian design with the parts produced in China, so it doesn't really go against your theory that Chinese designs are all about looks over performance (and the Kizer Gemini is a Laconico design as well). I see some of the designs from WE and I love them (e.g. 604) but then I see others and go into full wtf (e.g. 605, 619, etc.) so maybe you have a point about Chinese brands in general. If that's the case I can only guess they're making what sells best. People love tacticool stuff, look how much of it is sold.
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Completely agree. They have the chops to make amazing cutting implements and eventually I expect one of them will start doing so. Right now I think they're following trends as they're still a relatively new force in the market. I will say, from an aesthetic standpoint, I like the high end Chinese stuff a lot. Some of them are outright gaudy, but they're unafraid to go with interesting looks and colors, which is a welcome break from the sea of black and digicam.
 
evilgreg said:
Oh dear lord, "popped zit knife" is so accurate. What the heck is that thing?
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Its one of those wierd here today gone tomorrow brands like ch and vitelli. Designs too risky for an established name. In fact this was supposed to be a ch at one point.

Mo2 said:
We dont support copies, homages, replica's, etc here. go elsewhere if you want to support theft.
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No one hear is supporting anything. Its a discussion. No one is posting pics of clones. Nor is anyone selling any clones. And no one has brought up any specific clones for discussion. Asking what you define as unacceptable is not a violation of the rules so you dont need to subscribe to the group think mentality to avoid the question.
 
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