chinese onions

[buckabee]

...
And yes, I say the same thing about Buck and Spyderco. I said if they are not careful they will get that reputation.

And that's the reason this discussion should be had in the general or political forum, where many other similiar discussions exist.
You can discuss this issue for example here.

 

[BRASMAN]

i got a box in the mail today, when i opened it i pulled out a beautiful camo echo. as i admired it i noticed something i have never seen on a ken onion... CHINA. how many other chinese onions are there. i did not know that they existed. it is an excelent knife but i was still a little dissapointed.

What Gmountain said is very relevent to the original post in this thread. The original poster said that he was disappointed to see that his Echo was made in China and quite frankly so was I. Gmountain never asked any one to not buy Kershaw knives or degraded them. The fact is that China still throws people in prison for their faith and since the govt there does make a profit on every thing that comes out of the country it is connected and very relevent. So if Gmountain is off topic then the whole thread is and should be moved.

I like my Kershaws very much and plan on buying more Kershaws and would love to see an Echo with better grips and a much better sheath made in the U.S.A. preferably or at least a FREE country. I would buy one or two more and pay the extra price.

 

[Thomas W]

He also said he admired the piece and that is was beautiful. Also that is was excellent. Gmountain didn't agree that this was possible.

I'm also going to recommend this thread get locked up should the political discussion continue.

 

[Thomas W]

Thomas W...Don't you think that it MIGHT BE time that you signed back on AS a moderator? I'm here at this Kershaw forum quite a bit, watching over things alittle, and sometimes Tim even pops in, but it would be great to have YOU back in-charge.

Anytime you're ready, I'm sure that Spark will welcome you back as THE Kershaw mod.:thumbup:.:thumbup:.

No way Dann, I'm enjoying my freedom.

 

[TxRedbeard]

I think the best solution would be to post the country where the knife was manufactured on the product description page at the Kershaw website. I personally don't mind where Kershaw chooses to manufacture their knives, but really don't like unpleasant surprises. If most consumers don't care, then this shouldn't hurt sales. For those of us who do care, allow us to continue purchasing the Kershaw brand while avoiding products made in China.

Speaking of which, does anyone know where the Responder is made? Is this made in China?

 

[bradym]

i just want the quality of all my kershaws to be the same. the echo is the only non american kershaw i own and it does not even come close to my other twenty two home grown american kershaws. yea it may be cheaper to make them there but i would pay the extra money to get it to say MADE IN USA!

 

[Thomas W]

bradym, I guess I need to repeat these two statements.

I'll go on record as saying that the knives we produce in China are not on the same level as those made at the facility in Tualatin. They are nice knives, but we're able to just make a better product here. Materials are better here, the labor is more skilled, and many other factors play to the absolute fact that we here in the US can just manufacture knives better.

If as a US manufacturer, you can't produce a knife better than one you bring in from China, you're not trying too hard.

I'll also go on to say that no manufacturer that brings in product from China is immune from quality inconsistencies. Don't fool yourselves.

Now the Echo is a fine knife, straight forward, decent steel.

...but obviously we have that 30+ year relationship with Japan, and then there's that factory of ours in China...not to mention we do have limitations here at the US factory.

 

[reholli]

i just want the quality of all my kershaws to be the same. the echo is the only non american kershaw i own and it does not even come close to my other twenty two home grown american kershaws. yea it may be cheaper to make them there but i would pay the extra money to get it to say MADE IN USA!

Please believe that I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I really suspect that you've let your disappointment with the knife's place-of-manufacture color your appreciation of it.

I haven't handled an Echo, but I'm interested in owning one and have sought out pictures on the net, found large ones and additionally zoomed them as much as possible, and I just can't visually find any of the quality shortcomings that would warrant the above statement. Did the edge chip or roll during use or the handle come loose? What's the foundation for your lack-of-quality statement?

AUS8A is not a junk steel, although many badmouth all the AUSn steels...the design is classic Onion with a great recurve blade and what looks like a wicked grind...the handle shares the great ergos of the Blackout and Whirlwind folders and other Kershaw designs...even the sheath looks pretty good.

For what these can be picked up for, I'd say it's a real value. :thumbup:

The charge that Kershaw is just out to make a quick buck from cheap Chinese labor (not leveled by you, bradym, but by others) is shallow...their Chinese products are designed to put the Kershaw name and designs in the hands of buyers that want them but could otherwise not afford these products if USA-made and sold at the resulting higher price, and I would bet that the revenue and profits earned by Kershaw from their Chinese products is a very small part of their total.

Ray

 

[Gmountain]

The charge that Kershaw is just out to make a quick buck from cheap Chinese labor (not leveled by you, bradym, but by others) is shallow...their Chinese products are designed to put the Kershaw name and designs in the hands of buyers that want them but could otherwise not afford these products if USA-made and sold at the resulting higher price, and I would bet that the revenue and profits earned by Kershaw from their Chinese products is a very small part of their total.

Ray

As our money flows to China, all products will cease to be made here. It is short sighted. If Kershaw wants to sell a line of knives at a lower price, then cut the profit on the loss leader. If people want a Kershaw, then they will get one. We are only talking $40 or so for a nice USA made Kershaw.

As Thomas W himself said

Originally Posted by Thomas W
I'll go on record as saying that the knives we produce in China are not on the same level as those made at the facility in Tualatin. They are nice knives, but we're able to just make a better product here. Materials are better here, the labor is more skilled, and many other factors play to the absolute fact that we here in the US can just manufacture knives better.

If as a US manufacturer, you can't produce a knife better than one you bring in from China, you're not trying too hard.

What then is the point?

 

[Thomas W]

Kai USA produces 87 models right here in Tualatin Oregon USA, not counting the 25 + boutique runs annually. I think it's important to note that we actually manufacture these knives and do not have businesses we don't know do it for us. These models add up to 85 -90% of our sales. As I have posted many times, we are more focused than ever to increase our USA production. This of course is an uphill battle, as we are not the factory that has a complete line or class of knives that are outsourced to business in places that are difficult to get to, and once again are produced by people no one knows. I'll look for your critical threads on or in their forums in near future.

I honestly don't know who can do USA volume manufacturing better than us, especially for the monies that what we charge.

Sometimes Gmountain, just when you think you know it all, and you have it all figured out, experiences and time have a way of changing one's thought process and beliefs.

If you really want to complain about products being outsourced to China, you need to look a little past the manufacturer. The large retailers in this country are the ones that have forced manufacturing into the current direction they are working towards. They put a box in front of us and tell us to fill it. It's almost impossible to fill it domestically, yet there we are doing it day in and out. Look at the board in any Wal-Mart, how many USA made knives are there other than ours?

You want to school us on our knives made at our factory in China? I'll tell you to get off your soapbox, have some vision at the whole big picture, and look to actually learn something.

It's real easy for you to say what we should do and shouldn't do, where we should manufacture and where we shouldn't, but you don't even know the question(s) we all deal with daily, so how can you tell me the answers?

From the thoughts you have posted on business, it's quite obvious you have little experience in volume manufacturing and the challenges that are put forth in front of us each and everyday.

I'll get back to my family now.

 

[Gmountain]

If you really want to complain about products being outsourced to China, you need to look a little past the manufacturer. The large retailers in this country are the ones that have forced manufacturing into the current direction they are working towards. They put a box in front of us and tell us to fill it. It's almost impossible to fill it domestically, yet there we are doing it day in and out. Look at the board in any Wal-Mart, how many USA made knives are there other than ours?

Absolutely, you are right. Wal-Mart is the biggest importer of Chinese products in the country and has single handedly forced many companies to close their doors in the US and move operations to China. I know it is not only the manufacturer, however we all need to draw the line somehwere or we will all be out of work eventually.

As far as Wal-Mart, I will never ever buy anything from them. I have not been in a Wal-Mart in over 7 years and I will never again enter one. Wal-Mart has done more to destroy the manufacturing sector in this country than any other entity.

I wish no harm to Kershaw. I like my knives a lot. I see no long term advantage to either Kershaw, the country, or any other knife maker by outsourcing knives to China.

I know it's a tough business, but we all, as Americans, need to understand that saving a few cents now on detergent means we will have no jobs for our children in twenty five years. I will gladly pay more for goods rather than go to some big box store. I do.

 

[Thomas W]

I know it is not only the manufacturer, however we all need to draw the line somehwere or we will all be out of work eventually.

If certain manufacturer's don't outsource, they will be out of business now.

As far as Wal-Mart, I will never ever buy anything from them

Well there are those USA made Kershaw's..

 

[spiralarchitect]

I like Chinese food, I like Chinese people, I even like Chinese Onions well enough. Here is how it breaks out.... I bought a Chinese Wally World Vapor.... it was cheap and I was broke when I was in college.... I got out of college and I actually make some money now... I bought a Scallion.... then a Leek.... I got a raise... I decided I might do this for a hobby.... I bought an Offset...then a Spec Bump... and so forth and so on...I think this logical progression of purchases (all starting with an easily obtainable Chinese made product) is how it is supposed to work.

The knives I listed are the 100 percent truth. A Chinese made Vapor turned into over 100 purchases over the last few years.

That Vapor is my least favorite Kershaw, but, it did what it was designed to do. It opened the door and I stepped right through it. Just a little food for thought.

 

[jonnymac44]

I like Chinese food, I like Chinese people, I even like Chinese Onions well enough. Here is how it breaks out.... I bought a Chinese Wally World Vapor.... it was cheap and I was broke when I was in college.... I got out of college and I actually make some money now... I bought a Scallion.... then a Leek.... I got a raise... I decided I might do this for a hobby.... I bought an Offset...then a Spec Bump... and so forth and so on...I think this logical progression of purchases (all starting with an easily obtainable Chinese made product) is how it is supposed to work.

The knives I listed are the 100 percent truth. A Chinese made Vapor turned into over 100 purchases over the last few years.

That Vapor is my least favorite Kershaw, but, it did what it was designed to do. It opened the door and I stepped right through it. Just a little food for thought.

Very good point, Spiral.

I've been collecting pocket knives since I was just a kid, and I remember Kershaw, Gerber, and Cold Steel knives from the Parallex Survival Gear catalog I used to get when I was about 12 or 13 and really into military stuff, but the first Kershaw that I actually owned was a Vapor II that I got from my younger brother about 10 or so years ago. As most of you know, it's been a nonstop spree ever since, and it all began for me with one little Chinese made knife!!

Cheers,
jon

 

[Gmountain]

If certain manufacturer's don't outsource, they will be out of business now.

Then they are delaying the inevitable. In the meantime, because of outsourcing, Americans are losing jobs. It not just the manufacturers though-Americans need to show some fortitude and not be so materialistic (in just a small way).

Well there are those USA made Kershaw's..

And I'll gladly buy them, but never from Wal-Mart. Profits made by Wal-Mart (profits on even American made goods) are reinvested in China. We all need to put China out of business.

 

[mmmotorcycle]

Chinese Kershaws are a gateway drug!!!

It makes sense since I have the same predicament now.

Thanks for the insight spiralarchitect!

 

[bradym]

reholli the handle material doeos not meet smoothly with the blade tang, and i am scared to attach the sheath to my hunting pack because i fear that it will hold up. Kershaws are #1 to me but i have several buck knives that i would use in place of this while in the field. also the knifr sits very loosley in the sheath and there is nothing to secure it in place. dont get me wrong, kershaws are great as i said i do have over twenty of them and plan on buying many more i just hope that i am not let down again.

 

[lawnspic]

Thomas you have a point, and i understand. There are many factors when a business needs to make decisions to grow and compete in the marketplace. Outsourcing some of your product line is a very smart move in todays economy.

It just sucks when a company with a long history making fine cutlery has to make those kind of decisions. The reason is we have pride and like to see are beloved products made by our people. On a brighter note im sure you will try your best to keep the quality above and beyond.

 

[svrider3]

I'm also going to recommend this thread get locked up should the political discussion continue.

Coach, would you please be kind enough to do so??
I'm trying real hard to keep my mouth shut on this one.

I value my membership here a lot but I can only take so much
of seeing a dead horse get kick around before I start kicking.

SV

 

[nozh2002]

The Outcast, Echo, and Vapor's, are the Onion designs made in our facility in China.

What else are made in China?

Thanks, Vassili.