Chinese S35VN?

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zdp189

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Do companies like Kizer use American steel (like the S35VN advertised for the Gemini), or their own "version" of it? If the latter, how can they call it by that name (isn't it licensed to Crucible?)

-M
 
They why in the review of the Kizer Gemini on www.everydaycommentary.com did the reviewer say:

(excerpt from http://www.everydaycommentary.com/2015/12/kizer-gemini-review.html)


S35VN is a very good steel. I have no complaints whatsoever and Kizer's implementation of Crucible's flagship stainless formula is as good as any. I am not sure where the heat treat is done, but for a long time that was a stumbling block (that and shipping costs) to getting go steel on Chinese knives. That problem is fixed and the market is better for it.
 
My impression from reading that excerpt was that he was talking about the heat treat.
Click to expand...

really, from "implementation of Crucible's flagship stainless formula " you got that?

I think Tony may have just gotten this wrong
 
zdp189 said:
really, from "implementation of Crucible's flagship stainless formula " you got that?

I think Tony may have just gotten this wrong
Click to expand...

I'm not disputing whether it really is s35vn or not, it might very well be a chinese analogue labeled as such.
However, I did read "implementation of Crucible's flagship stainless formula" in the quote as the processing, utilization, or treatment of s35vn. The following sentence which refers to the heat treat further convinced me of it.
 
5370H55V said:
I'm not disputing whether it really is s35vn or not, it might very well be a chinese analogue labeled as such.
However, I did read "implementation of Crucible's flagship stainless formula" in the quote as the processing, utilization, or treatment of s35vn. The following sentence which refers to the heat treat further convinced me of it.
Click to expand...

I still think it's misleading, and I read the 2nd sentence as a totally separate issue (as it is a totally separate step in the process). Anyhoo...
 
zdp189 said:
Do companies like Kizer use American steel (like the S35VN advertised for the Gemini), or their own "version" of it? If the latter, how can they call it by that name (isn't it licensed to Crucible?)

-M
Click to expand...

Crucible even confirmed the export to China....
 
They are using S35VN, M390 and many other high end steels. Many of the Chinese knife brands you see are made in only a few factories. And those few factories are mostly found in the same industrial complex. They import the steel and crucible has confirmed certain companies have imported it. But if you contacted crucible and asked whether or not brand X, Y, or Z has purchased any steel and it comes back that they in fact did not it doesn't mean they didn't buy and import the steel. It just means it was imported by the parent company making X, Y and Z brands. Mind you all the brands that legitimately import the steel welcome anyone to go have it tested. Now many might say with chinas history of deception how can we trust them. Well just like anything you take it on a bit of faith. But you do with with ANY company. In most cases none of us know if our knives are really what they are labeled as. Some groups are definitely more trust worthy than others but still we take it all on faith that the markings are correct. But given how long Chinese knives have been a player in the high end market and just how many different brands have popped up and all the custom makers who are now collaborating with these factories if there was a question of them using the genuine article I would think we would have seen something come up by now.
 
zdp189 said:
They why in the review of the Kizer Gemini on www.everydaycommentary.com did the reviewer say:

(excerpt from http://www.everydaycommentary.com/2015/12/kizer-gemini-review.html)


S35VN is a very good steel. I have no complaints whatsoever and Kizer's implementation of Crucible's flagship stainless formula is as good as any. I am not sure where the heat treat is done, but for a long time that was a stumbling block (that and shipping costs) to getting go steel on Chinese knives. That problem is fixed and the market is better for it.
Click to expand...

Because he doesn't know what he's talking about.
 
zdp189 said:
They why in the review of the Kizer Gemini on www.everydaycommentary.com did the reviewer say:

(excerpt from http://www.everydaycommentary.com/2015/12/kizer-gemini-review.html)


S35VN is a very good steel. I have no complaints whatsoever and Kizer's implementation of Crucible's flagship stainless formula is as good as any. I am not sure where the heat treat is done, but for a long time that was a stumbling block (that and shipping costs) to getting go steel on Chinese knives. That problem is fixed and the market is better for it.
Click to expand...

Because, while I actually like Tony quite a bit, he's found of overly complex sentence structure. But I've actually chatted with a rep from Niagara Specialty Metals who confirmed that they supply Kizer with S35VN.
 
PURPLEDC said:
They are using S35VN, M390 and many other high end steels. Many of the Chinese knife brands you see are made in only a few factories. And those few factories are mostly found in the same industrial complex. They import the steel and crucible has confirmed certain companies have imported it. But if you contacted crucible and asked whether or not brand X, Y, or Z has purchased any steel and it comes back that they in fact did not it doesn't mean they didn't buy and import the steel. It just means it was imported by the parent company making X, Y and Z brands. Mind you all the brands that legitimately import the steel welcome anyone to go have it tested. Now many might say with chinas history of deception how can we trust them. Well just like anything you take it on a bit of faith. But you do with with ANY company. In most cases none of us know if our knives are really what they are labeled as. Some groups are definitely more trust worthy than others but still we take it all on faith that the markings are correct. But given how long Chinese knives have been a player in the high end market and just how many different brands have popped up and all the custom makers who are now collaborating with these factories if there was a question of them using the genuine article I would think we would have seen something come up by now.
Click to expand...

While this is true, some have gone through other distributors to get the steel from america. iirc Vlad arranged m390 from a 3rd party in America for We Knives for instance.
so thats not always the case.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Because, while I actually like Tony quite a bit, he's found of overly complex sentence structure. But I've actually chatted with a rep from Niagara Specialty Metals who confirmed that they supply Kizer with S35VN.
Click to expand...

Understood. But now what about the heat treat, I assume that's done by Kizer?
 
Mo2 said:
While this is true, some have gone through other distributors to get the steel from america. iirc Vlad arranged m390 from a 3rd party in America for We Knives for instance.
so thats not always the case.
Click to expand...

Im not sure which part you disagreed with.
 
5370H55V said:
My impression from reading that excerpt was that he was talking about the heat treat.
Click to expand...
I believe the quote is saying the way Kizer's puts S35VN to use was up to par with anyone else. The problem with exporting it from China to America is their heat treat wasn't as good, so it would have to be shipped to America for heat treating then back to China for assembly, and finally back to America or Europe or where ever to be sold. All that after importing the steel to begin with. I guess the Chinese factories have it figured out locally now though.
 
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