Chipped my NMFBM

So, what's the difference between a tear and a chip? It's a bit of metal missing one way or the other, yes? I'm asking because I don't know, not to be difficult.
 
Warbow150 said:
So, what's the difference between a tear and a chip? It's a bit of metal missing one way or the other, yes? I'm asking because I don't know, not to be difficult.
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I think the common assumption is that a chip is where metal is gone and a tear is still attached. The most damage I have been able to do is when I accidentally jam the tip of a busse into a plate (ceramic) or a piece of slate or something that may be under dirt. The tip can look like mashed clay up close. Then if I smash it with the bottom of a mug or on one of my large cast iron pans it seams to straighten out again with out loosing a lot of material. Infi seams to be both soft and hard sometimes. Maybe that doesn't seem logical, but thats been my experience from both a CGFBM and a satin fatty game warden hack. I don't call that a tear, more a mush?? or mash?? anyway I've cut metal wire and nails without edge damage and the only tears I have was when, like an idiot, I was moving stuff and two INFI blades were smacking against each other.
 
Snakebreaker said:
This. After I first got my Fat ASH1.......it was used in a lot of digging work into the ground. I had a factory edge, and after an hour or so, it had a lot of tiny nicks all along the edge just like what's shown here.

I took it to my work sharp for several passes and it cleaned right up. Took it back out for more of the same work and this time, very few nicks. Few more passes on the work sharp. Its been beaten ridiculously ever since and no more nicks or dings.

Beat....sharpen....repeat. After that.......

Beat.....repeat!
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This is interesting. For a couple years I was using my tank buster mostly as a bone cleaver in the kitchen or to chop frozen meat. Then when I finally took it back out to the woods I noticed the edge wasn't performing the way I wanted it too, so I got in the habit of hitting it with a small rod in literally the same why I align the edges of my chef's knifes. Just a few passes on each side once in a while between big jobs. It just seams to get sharper and tougher now and I have never really taken any metal off or changed any geometry. It's becoming a habit with all my knives, but works exceptionally well with INFI.
 
nydude said:
I think the common assumption is that a chip is where metal is gone and a tear is still attached. The most damage I have been able to do is when I accidentally jam the tip of a busse into a plate (ceramic) or a piece of slate or something that may be under dirt. The tip can look like mashed clay up close. Then if I smash it with the bottom of a mug or on one of my large cast iron pans it seams to straighten out again with out loosing a lot of material. Infi seams to be both soft and hard sometimes. Maybe that doesn't seem logical, but thats been my experience from both a CGFBM and a satin fatty game warden hack. I don't call that a tear, more a mush?? or mash?? anyway I've cut metal wire and nails without edge damage and the only tears I have was when, like an idiot, I was moving stuff and two INFI blades were smacking against each other.
Click to expand...

A chip is when a section of the edge splits, metal isn't lost as much as it is misaligned. Like grabbing a whole pizza and pulling it apart so there is a gap between two of the slices. A tear is when an a chunk of metal from the edge is actually sheared off.
 
A chip is when a section of the edge splits, metal isn't lost as much as it is misaligned. Like grabbing a whole pizza and pulling it apart so there is a gap between two of the slices. A tear is when an a chunk of metal from the edge is actually sheared off.
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That sounds like a split. Split, chip, tear, roll, dent, ding...it's all so violent...and confusing...and ultimately, I suspect, irrelevant. Where once was metal, now there is none. At least not metal like it used to be.
 
It is, and that is what a chip is. Do some refer to it as a split?
 
nydude said:
This is interesting. For a couple years I was using my tank buster mostly as a bone cleaver in the kitchen or to chop frozen meat. Then when I finally took it back out to the woods I noticed the edge wasn't performing the way I wanted it too, so I got in the habit of hitting it with a small rod in literally the same why I align the edges of my chef's knifes. Just a few passes on each side once in a while between big jobs. It just seams to get sharper and tougher now and I have never really taken any metal off or changed any geometry. It's becoming a habit with all my knives, but works exceptionally well with INFI.
Click to expand...

Yeah buddy!
 
Warbow150 said:
That sounds like a split. Split, chip, tear, roll, dent, ding...it's all so violent...and confusing...and ultimately, I suspect, irrelevant. Where once was metal, now there is none. At least not metal like it used to be.
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LOL

"Chip" is being described by Jerry as a sudden fracture, like chipping out bits of ice - a cleft opens and propagates. Because of this, the size/shape of the chip doesn't even often resemble that of the object encountered, the fracture just followed the path of least resistance. The surface of a chip is often gritty looking but has a well-defined boundary.

"Tear" is a relatively slower process - a bit of edge is steered off course = bent/deformed beyond the elastic zone and then beyond the plastic zone to where fracture occurs. Impacting the nail, the edge was compressed and then stretched sideways around the shaft of the nail (evinced by the bending at the edges) and "torn" when the stretch exceeded local UTS, missing pieces were sheared away. If the inner surface of the gap doesn't look 'gritty', that's a good sign that the metal mostly deformed before it broke = "tear".
 
Just wanted to bump this.

After reading the INFI "formula change" discussion, as well as the factory edge discussion, my curiosity was piqued, and I went back with some minor search foo only to fall into a rabbit hole of great explanatory threads, some going more then a decade back. I don't think it's necessary to repost, but if anyone is curious, it's out there, and needless to say my faith that Busse was, is, and will continue to be, the best possible hard use knives available is unwavering. Just sayin'.
 
nydude said:
Just wanted to bump this.

After reading the INFI "formula change" discussion, as well as the factory edge discussion, my curiosity was piqued, and I went back with some minor search foo only to fall into a rabbit hole of great explanatory threads, some going more then a decade back. I don't think it's necessary to repost, but if anyone is curious, it's out there, and needless to say my faith that Busse was, is, and will continue to be, the best possible hard use knives available is unwavering. Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

From one NY dude to another... :thumbup:
 
Warbow150 said:
So, what's the difference between a tear and a chip? It's a bit of metal missing one way or the other, yes? I'm asking because I don't know, not to be difficult.
Click to expand...

To most people the "practical" difference is irrelevant, as either way metal is missing from your edge. From a metallurgical perspective however, the difference is SIGNIFICANT. It also is important in terms of what it says about the blade as a whole. Let me throw out a few mildly complex terms then attempt to explain it in plainer English.

Steel is a crystalline material. A chip is a fracture, and is a failure, typically along grain boundaries, out of brittleness. Think of it in terms of a diamond being hit with a hammer. This is an example of fracture, it fails with zero or minimal elastic deformation. A tear however is something very different. This is a failure where the metal moves elastically, up to and then beyond its yield point until, eventually, it tears. Think of this as hitting a grape with a hammer. Sure, it goes to pieces as well just like a diamond, however it doesn't fracture, it elongates elastically, and then it exceeds that point it rips.

What does this mean to the blade as a whole? Well a blade that'll chip is more likely to fracture as a whole, causing a major failure. A tear means, while you still exceeded the tensile strength of the material, in terms of the larger blade you'd be unlikely to see a larger failure. And if you did, you'd see significant feedback (flexing then bending) first. A tear also likely absorbed more energy than a chip prior to failure.

Think of this all in terms of how toughness is, scientifically, tested. You take a small rod, place it between two blocks, and break it with a big swinging weight. Material toughness is based on how high that weight swings after it has passed through the material. Something too soft will perform poorly. Something too hard will perform even more poorly because, despite extremely high tensile strength, the fracture of the material absorbed comparatively little energy. A very tough material has high tensile strength but will flex and yield significantly before potential fracture.

Take this video as a better explanation:
https://youtu.be/abvUeWWV06w


TL;DR it may seem like it doesn't matter, but trust me it does.
 
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