Chisel edge

sorry, your prescription for how sharp my knife needs to be is incorrect, and I'd suggest that a few others would not accept an edge finished that way either. If you don't know the difference, there is little point in discussing it further.

Call me myopic if you like, it is what it is and it is not what it is not. A chisel edge is not microbeveled on both sides of the apex...just like a zero grind doesn't have a secondary bevel.
 
unit said:
sorry, your prescription for how sharp my knife needs to be is incorrect, and I'd suggest that a few others would not accept an edge finished that way either. If you don't know the difference, there is little point in discussing it further.

Call me myopic if you like, it is what it is and it is not what it is not. A chisel edge is not microbeveled on both sides of the apex...just like a zero grind doesn't have a secondary bevel.
Click to expand...

You misunderstood me. Get your knife as sharp as you like. But your preoccupation with where microbevels are or are not has nothing to do with the final sharpness or cutting ability of a pocket knife. 34/1 and 35/0 are not different in any real world way for pocket knives, unless you sharpen knives to match definitions and not to cut things. Any level of sharpness can be achieved, even if a tiny micro bevel is part of that process.

You seemed to be preoccupied with the definition of a chisel grind rather than how to use the design to simplify sharpening - which is the one and only one reason Emerson uses them.


If the idea that a microbevel prevents you from adequately getting your EDC sharp, do not get a knife designed for simplified sharpening. You don't want to use the knife as it was designed. Get something that matches your peccadilloes. It won't cut any better, but you won't have a philosophical brain freeze dealing with it.
 
RX-79G said:
You misunderstood me. Get your knife as sharp as you like. But your preoccupation with where microbevels are or are not has nothing to do with the final sharpness or cutting ability of a pocket knife. 34/1 and 35/0 are not different in any real world way for pocket knives, unless you sharpen knives to match definitions and not to cut things. Any level of sharpness can be achieved, even if a tiny micro bevel is part of that process.

You seemed to be preoccupied with the definition of a chisel grind rather than how to use the design to simplify sharpening - which is the one and only one reason Emerson uses them.


If the idea that a microbevel prevents you from adequately getting your EDC sharp, do not get a knife designed for simplified sharpening. You don't want to use the knife as it was designed. Get something that matches your peccadilloes. It won't cut any better, but you won't have a philosophical brain freeze dealing with it.
Click to expand...

The title of the thread is "chisel edge" that is what I am discussing. You took it upon yourself to respond to me and make the assumptions that I was discussing your Emerson pocket knife or some wood working tools. My coments were not even to you, initially.

I discussed sushi knives and kamisori...and you seem to not understand that these require different care and cannot be sharpened the way you suggest.

I have no preoccupation with the definition of chisel edge (but it is the title of the thread, so I thought it might be a worthy thing to discuss), but you keep responding to my posts questioning me, so I respond. You seem preoccupied with arguing about it. As I see it there is nothing to argue, a chisel edge has a specific definition, your thoughts on what a pocket knife edge ought to be have absolutely nothing to do with that definition.
 
I take the "toolbox approach" to knives. Chisel grinds have a place in that box.

I do not know any of my knives interpersonally, so I'm not really sure if I like them or not. That said, every once in a while one of them bites me.:mad:
 
unit said:
The title of the thread is "chisel edge" that is what I am discussing. You took it upon yourself to respond to me and make the assumptions that I was discussing your Emerson pocket knife or some wood working tools. My coments were not even to you, initially.

I discussed sushi knives and kamisori...and you seem to not understand that these require different care and cannot be sharpened the way you suggest.

I have no preoccupation with the definition of chisel edge (but it is the title of the thread, so I thought it might be a worthy thing to discuss), but you keep responding to my posts questioning me, so I respond. You seem preoccupied with arguing about it. As I see it there is nothing to argue, a chisel edge has a specific definition, your thoughts on what a pocket knife edge ought to be have absolutely nothing to do with that definition.
Click to expand...

I think if you're going to make a blanket statement about chisel ground knives requiring the entire 0 bevel to be honed on this particular forum, you shouldn't be surprised if anyone thinks that you're off base. This may be the general forum, but it is mostly general use knives - not woodworking tools or sushi knives.

That said, any knife that lacks a secondary bevel gets that whole big edge bevel honed or ground, if you are symmetrically sharpening that blade. And plenty of blades have no secondary bevel. Like Scandis and many Japanese blades. That's the way it is.

What is different here is that a pocket knife with a chisel grind doesn't have a purpose or 900 years of sharpening tradition that dictates that there is only one way of sharpening it. Emerson, for instance, specifically uses a chisel grind BECAUSE it starts asymmetric so you can always sharpen it asymmetric.

A fine sushi knife has a tradition dictating a certain kind of stone and methodology. However, if you sharpen it a different way, it will still cut fish like a champ.

Woodworking tools are really the only legit situation where your concerns about microbevels have any validity.



The only reason there's an argument is because you said that Emerson's sharpening link proved your point. What point?


It takes two to argue, BTW.
 
I prefer a symmetrical edge to a bevel. I can't get any of my Emerson knives to pop hair like I can with a standard edge. The beveled edge is quick to touch up, but I can't get them to scary sharpness like a standard edge.i fully admit that I'm not an expert at sharpening like some here.
 
A chisel with a 30 or 40 degree side is plain dumb. A good chisel (lets say kitchen knife) is more around 12 to 17 degrees.

Once the burr forms, you use a very low angle like 1-2 degrees and just straighten the sucker out with one or two swipes. No angle on that side, ever.
 
Chisel/convex with no secondary bevel for me.

 
ev13wt said:
A chisel with a 30 or 40 degree side is plain dumb. A good chisel (lets say kitchen knife) is more around 12 to 17 degrees.

Once the burr forms, you use a very low angle like 1-2 degrees and just straighten the sucker out with one or two swipes. No angle on that side, ever.
Click to expand...

Most pocket and field knives are around 30 to 40 degrees inclusive. Are you saying a pocketknife should have an edge as delicate as a sushi knife?
 
RX-79G said:
Most pocket and field knives are around 30 to 40 degrees inclusive. Are you saying a pocketknife should have an edge as delicate as a sushi knife?
Click to expand...

No, I'm just saying a chisel ground knife that actually makes sense should. At least it should have a very high primary bevel and a thin spine. And the grind must be on the right side for right handed knives.

Otherwise it's only a stupid fashion knife without any real cutting purpose. Which is ok I guess, if people like it and buy it. I wouldn't.
 
Again, the bevel side is not a matter of handedness as much as the dominant kind and direction of cut being made with the knife. If making a cut that leaves a concave surface you need the bevel side facing the cutting medium. If making a straight or convex cut then you need it on the right. The flat has no ability to break from the the cut. It's like driving a car that can only go straight or turn one direction. "Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." :D If you had a "left-handed" chisel grind you could make paring cuts by drawing the knife towards yourself like a paring knife, but could only make such cuts away from yourself by working the left side of the target.
 
newguy93 said:
Do any of you guys or gals here have any knives with a chisel edge?
Click to expand...



_0021_X3201_A.jpg
 
I Agree
ev13wt said:
No, I'm just saying a chisel ground knife that actually makes sense should. At least it should have a very high primary bevel and a thin spine. And the grind must be on the right side for right handed knives.

Otherwise it's only a stupid fashion knife without any real cutting purpose. Which is ok I guess, if people like it and buy it. I wouldn't.
Click to expand...
 
Wow, this is still running, huh? I posted on the first page of this thread--since then, I've used three different Emersons for all sorts of tasks and touched them up on my Golden Stone, bringing them back to hair shaving, ridiculously sharp with very little effort. While discussion is what this place is all about, I never understood the problem with the chisel edge, or even the chisel grind. In my experience, it works really well... Whether thick cardboard, meat, wood, etc... My other knives work well too, with slight variance given the blade and the task at hand.
 
ev13wt said:
No, I'm just saying a chisel ground knife that actually makes sense should. At least it should have a very high primary bevel and a thin spine. And the grind must be on the right side for right handed knives.

Otherwise it's only a stupid fashion knife without any real cutting purpose. Which is ok I guess, if people like it and buy it. I wouldn't.
Click to expand...

No more fashion than every other "tactical" or heavy duty EDC pocket knife. The cutting prowess of your typical thick bladed ZT or whatever is no better than a "backwards" ground Emerson. None of them is designed with any particular cutting purpose in mind, and they really aren't great for any one that you might come up with.

Stabbing and slashing (tactical!) isn't exactly a fine art.
 
I am with FortyTwoBlades on this one 100%. We need to stop calling them "right" or "left" handed as a general blanket statement. There is no "backwards grind."

The side that the grind needs to be on is entirely dependent on what we are cutting, and for either side that the grind is on -there will be a use in either hand.

If you are right handed, you can make full use out of knives with the grinds on either side, and the same rule applies if you are left handed.

The thing that is needs to be cut is the deciding factor.
 
The Government said:
I am with FortyTwoBlades on this one 100%. We need to stop calling them "right" or "left" handed as a general blanket statement. There is no "backwards grind."

The side that the grind needs to be on is entirely dependent on what we are cutting, and for either side that the grind is on -there will be a use in either hand.

If you are right handed, you can make full use out of knives with the grinds on either side, and the same rule applies if you are left handed.

The thing that is needs to be cut is the deciding factor.
Click to expand...

Sir? Why do I need to stop calling them Right or Left handed"

When people order a chisel grind from me I ask them if they are right or left handed and make the knife accordingly.
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
Sir? Why do I need to stop calling them Right or Left handed"

When people order a chisel grind from me I ask them if they are right or left handed and make the knife accordingly.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top