chisel ground blades

Rat F.---Good post. Tennblades, contact an authority on the CG, like Phill Hatsfield, Pohan Leu or Ernest Emerson.
 
Kaizen1 said:
...For the ax example, are we talking about using the exact same overall sized angle (for example, 35 degree inclusive) on both axes?
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For my purpose of illustration, it doesn't make any difference. One groove has two beveled sides. The other groove has one beveled side (what ever the angle) and one side parallel with the path of the ax. To split logs for the fireplace, a double bevel is perfect. To shave slats (thin strips) off the side of a log, a chisel grind is preferred.
 
Zeasor said:
The chisel grind actually leaves LESS support behind the cutting edge. A single bevel at 15° yields a total of 15°. A double bevel, each side at 15° yields a total of 30°. It's simple geometry.
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:confused: Compare 15deg total included w/ 30 deg total included?
 
comparing a 15' degree chisel grind to a 30' degree double grind is like comparing apples to oranges. Why not compare a 15' degree chisel grind to a 15' degree double grind?

You can grind a chisel grind to whatever angle you wish. If you tilt the blade ever so slightly, now "Technically" you have a double ground blade.

Whatever you're cutting is not going to know the difference between chisel or double.

It is all up to the heat treater whether the blade is good or magnificient :D
 
Zeasor said:
For my purpose of illustration, it doesn't make any difference. One groove has two beveled sides. The other groove has one beveled side (what ever the angle) and one side parallel with the path of the ax. To split logs for the fireplace, a double bevel is perfect. To shave slats (thin strips) off the side of a log, a chisel grind is preferred.
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I actually misunderstood your point on my last post. I was thinking about what annr and Leu Custom have already pointed out- I think you're missing an important factor in comparing the performance of a chisel grind to other grinds because you're not considering that the inclusive edge/grind angle plays the major role in the cutting performance of a knife.
 
They don't veer - they just cut straight in a direction that the uninitiated may not expect them to!
 
Kaizen1 said:
I actually misunderstood your point on my last post. I was thinking about what annr and Leu Custom have already pointed out- I think you're missing an important factor in comparing the performance of a chisel grind to other grinds because you're not considering that the inclusive edge/grind angle plays the major role in the cutting performance of a knife.
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Agreed. My post was in response to the statement that "Better cuts, easier to sharpen, overall stronger blade because you have more stock." A 15° chisel grind does not provide "more stock" than a 15° (each side) double bevel (30° total). That's the only point of the post. I suspect that an X° chisel grind would support the edge equally as well as a 0.5X° (each side) double bevel (X° total) despite the slight difference in geometry at the cutting edge. As for cutting performance, that depends on the application.
 
I don't understand why CG threads get so complicated. When done correctly, the CG is an outstanding performer. As a utility or a cooking knife, the V grind makes more sense since there is no blade pull. If I remember correctly, the CG knife was a simple design that many men and women wore hidden for protection in the days of old Japan.
 
OilMan said:
I disagree, why does a chisel grind veer to one side when cutting then?
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The bevel acts as a wedge and tends to push the blade away from the bevel. If the blade is used to cut a very thin slice (with the sliced piece coming off the bevel) it will run true, no "veering". The bevel pushes the thin slice away, exerting negligible force on the blade. Try this. Cut a firm potato in half. Note there is no tendency for the blade to "veer" since both halves of the potato are thick enough that they don't "give" much. Position the knife with the flat side of the blade against the face of the potato and perpendicular to the cutting board. Cut a very thin slice, keeping the blade parallel to the original face of the potato and perpendicular. The blade will run true (straight down) and the thin slice will curl off of the bevel. Now move the potato to the other side of the blade next to the bevel and try a very thin slice, blade held parallel to the face of the potato and perpendicular. Slice straight down and, Whoops, the blade moves horizontally. The bevel pushes the blade away from the potato before it reaches the bottom. Take the other half of the potato (with a flat face) and put it flush against the bevel (knife will be slightly tilted away from the potato, with the bevel perpendicular) and try a very thin slice, pushing the blade straight down (not in the direction of the tilt). BINGO!

For very thin slicing, CGs are "handed"; bevel on right side of blade for right-handed use, left side bevel for lefties. To use a right side bevel in the left hand, tilt the blade so the bevel is parallel with the face of the potato, parallel to the direction of the cut. And before you ask, YES, the same is true for thin slicing cucumbers, carrots, onions, ham, etc.:D
 
Hey Zeasor---That was very good explanation. I hope everyone has this straight now. CG's can be good! I'll be darn.
 
We have been over this before. Anyone who has trouble cutting with a Chisel Grind doesn't know how to use a chisel.
 
Lycosa said:
Hey Zeasor---That was very good explanation. I hope everyone has this straight now...
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Geometry and physics for slicing a potato. This is bordering on the ridiculous.:)

Lycosa said:
...CG's can be good! I'll be darn.
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The right tool for the right job.

While on the subject, I suspect the blades in the latest multi-blade razor cartridges are chisel ground. Anyone want to write Gillette or tear a cartridge apart and put the blade under the microscope?

Please don't tell my parole officer I am playing with sharp things.:D
 
Zeasor said:
While on the subject, I suspect the blades in the latest multi-blade razor cartridges are chisel ground. Anyone want to write Gillette or tear a cartridge apart and put the blade under the microscope?

Please don't tell my parole officer I am playing with sharp things.:D
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I demand fully convexed gillette cartridges!
 
When done nicely, usually a zero ground blade, their cutting ability is quite amazing with soft materials like rope and most food. I have found that carving hardwoods is exausting and difficult.
 
OilMan said:
I disagree, why does a chisel grind veer to one side when cutting then?
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When you're cutting what? I think a knife is a knife, and it's up to the person cutting whatever. But then again, it's all relative to who is using the knife. When I use a chisel grind, it cuts straight.

My only thought to the blade veering to one side is that on those particular chisel grinds, there is a secondary bevel.
 
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