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Discussion in 'Busse Combat Knives' started by esdunbar, Feb 22, 2016.
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Gotta have a choil. Curves are sexy!!!
I love choils, primarily for the function... but on little knives I still love how it allows you to sharpen it nice an clean. An particularly on a little blades it adds a distinction between the handle and sharp edge.
The huge choil was the only thing that kept the 411 from being a perfect knife for me. I'm OK with a small sharpening notch but I'd rather not have anything bigger on any sized blade. What's the point of making a comfortable handle if you plan on grabbing a hold of bare metal to do any detail work? If you want to be able to choke up on the blade just run the edge as close to the handle as possible, done. Just my 2 cents.
I believe part of the 6% issue is pre-conditioning, if most Busse blades were historically made without choils in the past more people would prefer them that way. Since they were not and the logo knives had choils, most people go with the flow without realizing the subconscious part of their decision. There is a similar issue with diesel vs gas cars in the USA despite diesel cars being more efficient via way better fuel economy, the people are conditioned to buy more cars to consume more gallons of gas (which generates more fuel tax) just out of habit. Marketing is effective in ways consumers don't often realize. The other part might be because they worry about resale, though that seems to not be much of a problem in reality. None of that negates the valid reasons others prefer choils nor is it negative criticism or a bad thing, just observation/opinion of a man who finds topics like this fascinating.
Don't get me wrong, there are many beautiful designs with choils and they are great users too as many of us know first hand. I have way more with than without... no choil & fusion is not an option yet. The bottom line is it's Jerry's show and if he prefers choils for personal and/or business reasons that's cool. I would personally like to thank him for giving the sweet no choil offerings a shot to please those of us in the minority. :thumbup: Who knows, maybe preferences will change like many things do given enough time? More small no choil options would be great!
Oh, I forgot the tankbuster, zillas, ashbm, mmd, war boar, gladius & nick as some other great no choil samples. Thanks for these no choil beauties Jerry!
Thought I would borrow these from Jaxx:
I could definitely work with a CABS too, I'd just add a small sharpening notch with a dremel if/when any recurve developed, but to me the SCABS still looks the best. Different strokes and all that.
Coming from the land of the mora.. I am used to getting close to the cutting edge w/o a choil.
However, I fully see the advantages of a sharpening choil.. especially on a thicker blade.
I don't mind a small choil on a small knife for both sharpening and aesthetic reasons. And I totally understand the full finger choil on a mid-sized blade like the RMD for choking up for finer work. Where choils lose me is on larger blades. I can just about cope with the one on my BG-ASH1, but the one on the TRASH-1 just seemed like a complete waste of useable blade length and it wound up being a catch and release for me. On my bigger blades (711, TGLB and Desert Dogfather) I really don't see the point at all.
Is that a Ruger Scout Rifle Tim? How are enjoying it if it is?
Yup, it's good to go now, as compared to just so-so when it was brand new in that pic. I switched to a trijicon accupoint on a larue quick detach and got the factory polymer mags (<--this is a must have). :thumbup: Wish I still had that Blade special non-cbt .25" FFG CGFBM though.
I also prefer a small sharpening choil (Fallkniven S1). Like others have said, usable choil in the 5-6" plus range is good for me. Love the ergos on the ratmandu. I love the elmax active duty that i scored, but wish it just had a small sharpening choil instead of the one that is not big enough to get my finger in to make it usable.
Nice GSR Scout.
I love mine, polymer mags are a must. Running a 2.75 power Burris Scout scope on mine though, my favorite rifle next to my AR.
To keep in context with the thread, I don't mind choils on large knives, medium and small I'd like the option.
Thought to resurrect this thread with OP2W Part Deux upon us. Those who want more Choil-less options speak up! (And... everybody else of course)
Love me some small choil! How else are you going to expeditiously maintain the edge on a stone without constantly crashing into the quillion? I hate slowing the grind before hitting the heel on blades without sharpening choils. I will gladly give up a bit of cutting edge for ease of maintenance.
Good point, though I'll deal with some choil-less cosmetic sharpening wear in that area any day over the snag issue an elf choil presents. In my humble opinion a tiny sharpening notch is all that's needed to avoid the cosmetic wear from sharpening you mentioned and that's not what's on most small Busse's. Look at the size of the sharpening notches that "Survive" Knives utilizes on their small blades. YMMV
It's of course a personal preference and we all gravitate in different ways.
I think we may need to redefine "small knives".
Jerry posting that people didn't buy choil-less knives in the same quantities may also have to do with which knives were chosen to be choil-less. I have been trying to think of which small knives were ever released without a choil...and I can't find any. The CABS was the shortest and I consider it on the longer end of what I consider "small knives". Active Duty's, Game Warden's, SAR3, Cutleus, Mean Street's, Rodent Solution, SYKCO Elmax & 311's....they all have small choils that snag at inconvenient times.
I don't mind finger sized "choke-up" choils on the 4"+ blades...but the shorter blades I would use for field processing an animal, it just doesn't work for me. Would love to see a Game Warden remade with no choil.
Maybe we should edit the first option on the poll to "Love me some small snag issue" LOL
To me, I think it depends on the plunge line. If it is sharp and defined, no choil. If it is a "soft" line, then a sharpening choil looks better, and is functional as it lets you sharpen the whole blade.
I'm going to say please, please no more Choils on knives (.) period. A well designed blade and handle allows you to choke up while keeping your hand fully on the handle. A "finger choil" is not as comfortable to use as a well designed handle. The handle is the handle because that's where your HAND goes. Make a knife that doesn't require me to hold it by the uncomfortable part. A sharpening choil, on the other hand, allows one to sharpen right to the end of the blade edge. How does it do this? By removing the part of the edge that is not sharpenable. Hahahaha. A choil is a blade tax. All it does is take away edge while generating no utility. Jerry made the perfect knife in the SAR5. No wonder he burned the design...
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Interesting very early poll results......Maybe opinions have changed since it was mentioned that only 6% of customers preferred knives with NO CHOIL.