Choils

Half of my knives have finger choils in the blade. It is a great option to have and has grown on me very much in the last 5 years!! My two favorites are the Ferrum Forge Fortis and the Archbishop, they are the most comfortable in hand. As for Productions, I think spyderco does a good job with choils.
 
I like the finger choils on my Spydercos. I would prefer if my XM-24 didn't have one, though.
 
Does anybody think it's comfortable to be forced to put your index finger in a choil like the Spyderco Sage series for example in heavy cutting? Because I do not, uncomfortable to say the least. I love my Sage 2 but I will only use for light EDC stuff. Sometimes companies make them way too big as well, sacrificing a good amount of edge. Look at the Manix 2; 3.37" blade with only 2.88" of edge.
 
For me, choils make it a bit easier when sharpening. I have not really "needed" one but a lot of knives have them. Sometimes they work with the knife's aesthetics, sometimes they can be obtrusive and unnecessary though. Choilless blades sometimes have an unfinished heel end that is not sharp all the way to the plunge. Annoying, but not a big deal to fix either.

My favorite fixed with a choil is the Guardian 5 b/c it works well with that knife's ergos. I have not had the problem that others have where the index finger is too close to the blade heel and gets nicked or cut. The original handles were a bit uncomfortable, but Bradford's 3d sculpted handles (as they call them) solved that issue.

Favorite fixed without would be my Fiddleback camp knife. Being able to use the very heel end of the blade gives you more versatility and control to do finer jobs. The blade is big but light enough not to be clumsy.

Favorite folder with choil would be the xm18. I think it works with the design. I have high hopes for the choil-less one in m390 but can't comment b/c I have not received it yet.
 
talk about an over discussed subject. The search function would have netted many results and many of them very current. 56 threads just on this forum alone.


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(definition per Joe Talmadge)

The choil is an unsharpened section of the blade. If a guard is present, the choil will be in front of the guard on the blade itself. The choil is often used as a way to choke up on the blade for close-in work. The index finger is placed in the choil, and this close proximity to the edge allows for greater control. In addition, the choil is just in front of where the blade itself becomes part of the handle, an area often prone to breakage due to the blade-handle juncture. The choil leaves this area at full thickness and thus stronger.


For me it depends on the knife design. A choil makes a folder a little stronger generally, and perhaps a tad lighter as there is less handle. I go both ways in terms of design and have no particular preference one way or the other on folders. On a hard use folder, I would tend to lean away from a choil, but the reality is that I seldom really use folding knives hard. I just tend to choose a larger folding knife (particularly a longer handle) for harder use.
 
For me it all comes down to the size and design of a given knife. I usually don't find much use for a finger choil on knives until they get up into longer blade lengths, like 6"+ in fixed blades. Once you get into that all-arounder/survival knife size, the choil lets you choke up on the blade, shifting balance in hand toward the handle for easier handling on finer tasks while still being able to shift your grip back on the handle for more weight forward tasks, like light chopping. This effectively leaves out the choil for all folders I'd carry.

A choil loses it's usefulness for me once you get into longer, heavier dedicated chopper type blades that start getting cumbersome to use for finer tasks regardless. What size that is depends on a lot of factors in the knife design.

I do like a well executed sharpening notch/choil on most blades. So many of them are far bigger than they'd need to be though, and those tend to get in the way.
 
Cobalt said:
talk about an over discussed subject. The search function would have netted many results and many of them very current. 56 threads just on this forum alone.
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Right?

And yet folk STILL mis-use the term!!!

The "choil", y'all, is where the sharpened portion of the blade ends, often featuring a notch or finger cut-out. In the OP's photo, only 4 of the 6 knives present this, the two spydercos do not.


highestpoint said:
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Here are my two most used choil knives.
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That PM2 doesn't have a "choil" like the guardian does, it has an integral guard above which the choil is un-notched. The groove/cut-out beneath the guard is not a "choil" at all. The word "choil" is location specific - if it is not at the termination of the edge-grind, it is not a choil.
 
chiral.grolim said:
Right?

And yet folk STILL mis-use the term!!!

The "choil", y'all, is where the sharpened portion of the blade ends, often featuring a notch or finger cut-out. In the OP's photo, only 4 of the 6 knives present this, the two spydercos do not.




That PM2 doesn't have a "choil" like the guardian does, it has an integral guard above which the choil is un-notched. The groove/cut-out beneath the guard is not a "choil" at all. The word "choil" is location specific - if it is not at the termination of the edge-grind, it is not a choil.
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I consider it any part of the blade that has a finger "groove" that's not apart of the handle.

The way you've explained it makes sense too but I honestly don't think it's a huge deal
 
Pro-choil.

Blade-to-handle ratio is irrelevant to me. Ergonomics reign supreme. I prefer larger knives, so with the added choil, I still have plenty of edge to work with.

Favorite choil models (in order):
Spyderco Military
Spyderco Manix 2 XL
Superco SuperLeaf
 
Blues Bender said:
In my opinion, choils are a waste of blade length and are a lazy design. 9/10 times a knife can have a better blade:handle ratio and work in the same manner as a choil. However, some people apparently enjoy having their grip 2" away from the cutting edge with 3.5" of blade length and a 6" handle.
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I'm with Blues... On folders, I prefer more blade and a better ratio--no choil needed. On larger fixed blades I like a choil--helps with fine work and changes the balance. Jamesh Bond had a similar thread to this a little while back where much of the matter was debated.
 
Like 22-rimfire and chiral.grolim mention, there's a distinction to be made when talking about choils. The original use of the term is for very small cut outs at the base of the edge for ease of sharpening the entire edge. The "finger choil" is a term, as far as I can tell, made by forumites and popularized, I think, by Spyderco. Because of this context and common usage (this term has been used for quite a few years now), I don't think it's inappropriate to call the portion designed for choking up on a grip a "finger choil", but it's important to not just conflate it with the original choils. People who are into knives, especially some of the more old school folks, will look at you funny when they don't know about this internet term, or in the case of the above members, if they just don't like the term at all.
 
symphonyincminor said:
Pro-choil.

Blade-to-handle ratio is irrelevant to me. Ergonomics reign supreme. I prefer larger knives, so with the added choil, I still have plenty of edge to work with.

Favorite choil models (in order):
Spyderco Military
Spyderco Manix 2 XL
Superco SuperLeaf
Click to expand...

None of those knives feature a notched choil. You seem to prefer "choil-less" knives!

The knives feature an enlarged ricasso with a finger cut-out beneath an integral guard. The choil would necessarily be in front of the guard. You could call those "ricasso grooves" if you like, but they are not at the choil.
 
chiral.grolim said:
None of those knives feature a notched choil. You seem to prefer "choil-less" knives!

The knives feature an enlarged ricasso with a finger cut-out beneath an integral guard. The choil would necessarily be in front of the guard. You could call those "ricasso grooves" if you like, but they are not at the choil.
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I know that, traditionally, a choil is a small un-sharpened notch near the ricasso.

But Sal calls them forward choils, so.... :)
 
Yes, ricasso.... I generally consider them on the classic Randall knife design in front of the guard, if present, or between the sharpened edge and the handle. My BK-15 has a "finger choil" which I believe is also the ricasso on that knife.
 
22-rimfire said:
Yes, ricasso.... I generally consider them on the classic Randall knife design in front of the guard, if present, or between the sharpened edge and the handle. My BK-15 has a "finger choil" which I believe is also the ricasso on that knife.
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The BK15 choil-groove is correctly placed at the choil itself :thumbup:

The BK-16 also has a notch at the choil, it just isn't large enough for a finger.

I am one of those people that, as soon as the knife is in hand, slides his hand higher onto the blade itself to see how it handles for finer work. As such, I appreciate a well-done "finger choil".

This is one of my favorite folders right now - yes, a Gerber:

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On the other hand, this is perhaps my most favorite little fixed blade for EDC - a custom by Tim Johnson of Blackstone K&T:

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The way I see it finger choils on folders are an excellent form of finger protection should the lock fail.
 
Here is a good illustration of the difference between the "Ricasso" and the "Choil." Please note that the choil does not technically start until grind ends.....

Note I did not make this, I found it on the web.


 
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