Choosing a survival knife

And that's not a dig against ESEE or Busse...they make excellent knives.

In fact, for where my "survival" scenario would most likely be...I'd take either brand in a heartbeat.
 
cziv said:
So I'm hearing different knives for different climates/situation?

OR

Slightly softer steels are better for survival knives?

I'm assuming that 1095, 440C, Carbon V are softer than S30V for instance or am I off base there? :)
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If you're talking about one do it all survival knife, a slightly softer steel is going to save you ALOT of headache in the long run. that 13% Cr not only hardens the steel but also makes it more brittle in general. It not only effects the strength of the knife when it comes to catastrophic failure, IE chips and fractures, but also how the edge wears. 1075-1095, Carbon V, 5160, 52100, 01, A2, 15N20, all great steels. S30V has survival applications, but if you're talking about one and only do it all survival knife I don't think any stainless steel is ideal.
 
marcinek said:
Interesting! So, for you, corrosion resistance and edge retention are more important than toughness in a "survival" knife?

I guess that explains why you like the new "super" steels so much! :)
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Well, for a SMALL survival knife, which is MY preference, I probably wouldnt be doing a lot of chopping, but what I will be doing is cleaning game (corrosion resistance) and making snares and feather sticks (edge retention).

With a knife thats only about 4 and a half inches long, I dont expect great chopping potential. So I can compromise the toughness.

I dont need a lot of shock resistance and toughness making fuzzy sticks.
 
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PayetteRucker said:
They are two completely different steels-they sharpen and wear completely differently. But when you're in the middle of who the heck knows where it's alot easier to sharpen RC58 1095 with a small arkansas stone and a pinky sized swatch of Wet and Dry than it is to sharpen S30V. As I said Stainless steels, particularly hard ones, tend to be brittle causing the edge to microchip during extensive woodworking/rough use. It's also a heck of alot easier to damage the tip. You aren't going to find blade shape and edge geometry that compare with the Benchmade in 1095, at least not from a factory. A Kabar, RAT, Condor or any number of production companies using quality high carbon steel will give you a real example of what it is capable of. Heck, even Benchmade does-they have a combat utility knife called the CSK2 that runs around 60 bucks street price, it comes in 1095. Cold Steel's Carbon V is also a very capable high carbon steel although from the factory I don't like their edge profiles at all. You can buy a 10 dollar GI Tanto and with a few hours reprofiling have yourself a fine survival knife.
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The S30V is not "particularly" hard. Benchmade has it listed as 59-60 HRC.
 
look at the composition though. S30V has 13% chromium composition by mass, which not only hardens and adds considerable stain resistance, but also makes it much more brittle than carbon steels.
 
PayetteRucker said:
look at the composition though. S30V has 13% chromium composition by mass, which not only hardens and adds considerable stain resistance, but also makes it much more brittle than carbon steels.
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I believe (and I may be wrong) that you are incorrect in chromium adding hardness.

Chromium (as far as I know) is actually SOFT and is only there to add in the corrosion resistance. The CARBIDES and VANADIUM are what make it hard, but does it matter if the chromium is making it hard or if something else is, if in the end its still only 60 hrc tops?

60hrc=60hrc.
 
Micro-Bevel said:
I believe (and I may be wrong) that you are incorrect in chromium adding hardness.

Chromium (as far as I know) is actually SOFT and is only there to add in the corrosion resistance. The CARBIDES and VANADIUM are what make it hard, but does it matter if the chromium is making it hard or if something else is, if in the end its still only 60 hrc tops?

60hrc=60hrc.
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AG Russell says...

Chromium: Produces hardness and better edge holding when combined with other alloying materials. Used in fairly large amounts, it produces a blade that resists rust. Takes over 14% to produce high-carbon stainless steels. Expressed as Cr.
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Micro-Bevel said:
Actually, AG russel says,

produces hardness and better edge holding WHEN COMBINED WITH OTHER ALLOYING MATERIALS.

Not all alone.
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True.

Has nothing to do with the fact that it is not

"...only there to add in the corrosion resistance...."

but true nonetheless! :)
 
Micro-Bevel said:
Increases toughness? Wow, I had no idea.

PayetteRucker, do you belive Spyderco?
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not since they botched their 300 dollar bushcrafter, I don't own any of their products. I have a Byrd Raven that sits on my desk, as an overpriced letter opener, but for 99.5% of my daily cutting tasks I use a good ol RAT HEST, in which CARBON is the hardening agent, not chromium.
 
axtalan0 said:
Very informative, and lots of good info, I just take exception to the whole premise. The chances of an average person actually being in a wilderness survival situation is so remote as to be almost non-existent. The odds of winning the lottery are much higher, actually and even that is about 18-25 million to one. Someone wins the lottery fairly regularly, almost with weekly regularity, yet only once every few years do you actually see on the news about someone getting lost in the wilderness.

The average American is much more likely to face some imaginary 'survival' scenario in an urban setting, where a car, cash/gold/drugs, laptop, or working cell phone are waaaaaay more important survival tools than a knife.

I know, I know, survivalism is a hugely popular hobby among many knife enthusiasts (and let's be real, it is nothing more than a hobby for people with too much free time) but in terms of practical value, these discussions about survival knives for wilderness survival situations are about as realistic as discussing which color light saber is going to be the most effective for a Jedi Knight in training. Fun, but nothing more than adolescent fantasy. Not that there's anything wrong with that....:D
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So you're sayin' I should trade all my zombie knives for Powerball tickets, right? :confused:

Crap...




:D
 
PayetteRucker said:
not since they botched their 300 dollar bushcrafter, I don't own any of their products. I have a Byrd Raven that sits on my desk, as an overpriced letter opener, but for 99.5% of my daily cutting tasks I use a good ol RAT HEST, in which CARBON is the hardening agent, not chromium.
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Well, it IS wise not to blindly trust what people say, especially a manufacturer about their own products or some such thing.
 
Good post but like others here I have a problem with certain parts, not that they're wrong necessarily I just wanted to share my views on them.

The guard. You said:
Micro-Bevel said:
As a personal preference, I find the guard to get in the way when choking up to make fuzz sticks and the little notches for a spring snare. The closer you get towards the tip of the knife, its almost exponential how much power and control is lost. The guard puts space between my hand and the knife and so I lose power. Also, Im not a little kid, I can be careful and not cut myself, LOL. I dont really need it
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Okey that's your personal preferance, that's fine. I agree about losing some power because your hand is farther from the blade however, this is supposed to be a survival knife and in a real survival situation cutting yourself is definately not going to be fun. I also agree that if you're using the knife correctly you shouldn't cut yourself, but what if your hands are wet or bloody (from dressing an animal)? Then there's a possibility that your hand could slip onto the edge (if you hit a bone in the animal or something). So while you may gain some control for making feathersticks and such, there's more of a chance of cutting yourself. For a bushcraft knife (as in a planned visit to the woods to do some bushcrafting) where you have a first aid kit and can easily get to a hospital, it's fine because you're looking for the most performance out of your knife and unless you're a hunter, you probably won't be gutting any critters, but survival's another matter. Also there are knives with funtional choils on the blade that help you choke up if there is a guard (single guard, not a double guard).

Blade steel, ya others have discussed it already but here's my opinion anyway.

While the new super steels are great, they are harder to sharpen and in a survival situation you might not have a diamond sharpener and have to make do with a rock from the stream (may sound like crazy talk but it's been done), and then good luck sharpening your super steel with that. Also, like others have said, the super steels tend to be a bit more brittle than say 1095 and that could be a problem. You're not just going to be sitting around making feathersticks, you're going to be splitting wood and lots of it for a fire to keep you warm and dry (depending on where and when you're in this situation) and that can be a lot of stress on the knife, especially if it's brittle. The stainless vs. carbon steel thing is a bit tricky though. On one hand, a stainless steel knife won't need any maintenance apart from sharpening but of course that sharpening will probably be harder to do (if it's a super steel) or more frequent (if it's a softer steel). A carbon steel knife may only need a wipe down and that will prevent it from rusting although a lot of people put oil on their knives so there must be something to that. I've had one of my carbon steel knives rust while I was still using it while some of my other carbon steel knives have never had rust at all so I guess it depends on what carbon steel it is. So if it needs oiling then you better hope you have some oil with you, although I don't think that rust will cause much damage to your knife in the amount of time you're in a survival situation (before search and rescue finds you) especially if you're using it a lot. So I'd say a carbon steel knife in 1095 or something might be a better option for a survival knife than one of the new stainless super steels (depending on where the survival is taking place of course, I'm thinking worst case scenario here, as in raining and cold).

Blade grind.

It's a very personal thing I know, but hear me out. You said you like convex grinds or a flat grind with a convex edge. I know a lot of people here like convex knives but again in a survival situation you might not have your mousemat/sand paper sharpening system and so again to the stream you go to grab a rock. If you know how to sharpen a convex edge with a stone then great, it makes for a strong edge that would probably work great in a hard use situation, but it seems most don't know how so that could be a problem for them.

I don't have a problem with your ideal blade length exactly because that's my ideal too but I like to have an axe with me as well so I don't have to worry about wood processing with my knife (apart from making those feathersticks). If you have an axe with you then that blade length is great but if you don't, wood processing would probably be a big part of your knifes role and so maybe a longer blade would be better.

Those are just my opinions though, I've never been in a survival situation myself so it doesn't really matter what I say anyway.
 
Tye Possum said:
Good post but like others here I have a problem with certain parts, not that they're wrong necessarily I just wanted to share my views on them.

The guard. You said: Okey that's your personal preferance, that's fine. I agree about losing some power because your hand is farther from the blade however, this is supposed to be a survival knife and in a real survival situation cutting yourself is definately not going to be fun. I also agree that if you're using the knife correctly you shouldn't cut yourself, but what if your hands are wet or bloody (from dressing an animal)? Then there's a possibility that your hand could slip onto the edge (if you hit a bone in the animal or something). So while you may gain some control for making feathersticks and such, there's more of a chance of cutting yourself. For a bushcraft knife (as in a planned visit to the woods to do some bushcrafting) where you have a first aid kit and can easily get to a hospital, it's fine because you're looking for the most performance out of your knife and unless you're a hunter, you probably won't be gutting any critters, but survival's another matter. Also there are knives with funtional choils on the blade that help you choke up if there is a guard (single guard, not a double guard).

Blade steel, ya others have discussed it already but here's my opinion anyway.

While the new super steels are great, they are harder to sharpen and in a survival situation you might not have a diamond sharpener and have to make do with a rock from the stream (may sound like crazy talk but it's been done), and then good luck sharpening your super steel with that. Also, like others have said, the super steels tend to be a bit more brittle than say 1095 and that could be a problem. You're not just going to be sitting around making feathersticks, you're going to be splitting wood and lots of it for a fire to keep you warm and dry (depending on where and when you're in this situation) and that can be a lot of stress on the knife, especially if it's brittle. The stainless vs. carbon steel thing is a bit tricky though. On one hand, a stainless steel knife won't need any maintenance apart from sharpening but of course that sharpening will probably be harder to do (if it's a super steel) or more frequent (if it's a softer steel). A carbon steel knife may only need a wipe down and that will prevent it from rusting although a lot of people put oil on their knives so there must be something to that. I've had one of my carbon steel knives rust while I was still using it while some of my other carbon steel knives have never had rust at all so I guess it depends on what carbon steel it is. So if it needs oiling then you better hope you have some oil with you, although I don't think that rust will cause much damage to your knife in the amount of time you're in a survival situation (before search and rescue finds you) especially if you're using it a lot. So I'd say a carbon steel knife in 1095 or something might be a better option for a survival knife than one of the new stainless super steels (depending on where the survival is taking place of course, I'm thinking worst case scenario here, as in raining and cold).

Blade grind.

It's a very personal thing I know, but hear me out. You said you like convex grinds or a flat grind with a convex edge. I know a lot of people here like convex knives but again in a survival situation you might not have your mousemat/sand paper sharpening system and so again to the stream you go to grab a rock. If you know how to sharpen a convex edge with a stone then great, it makes for a strong edge that would probably work great in a hard use situation, but it seems most don't know how so that could be a problem for them.

I don't have a problem with your ideal blade length exactly because that's my ideal too but I like to have an axe with me as well so I don't have to worry about wood processing with my knife (apart from making those feathersticks). If you have an axe with you then that blade length is great but if you don't, wood processing would probably be a big part of your knifes role and so maybe a longer blade would be better.

Those are just my opinions though, I've never been in a survival situation myself so it doesn't really matter what I say anyway.
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1- Super Steels are not necessarily brittle. INFI is a super steel. Now, I have seen INFI cut through cinderblocks and not chip. Thats like the opposite of brittle. Definitely much more than 1095.

2- I carry a small sharpener in my sheath pocket, so I dont have to use a rock (that in turn allows me to carry a super steel knife. I personally carry a CGBS).

3- Yeah, if it is possible, taking an axe or a FFFBM etc.., to compliment the smaller knife, just is common sense.

4- The guard. The handles that your knife have will play a big role as it pertains to slipping onto the blade. Smooth maple burl handle scales will probably be slippier than Magnum Micarta Scales.
 
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