Choppers: some observations

[MtnHawk1]

I do. I've also been known to carry a bow saw out into the boonies, along with the axe.
I was taught at a young age to use the right tool for the job.
IMHO knives are for cutting stuff.
None of the "old timers" (Nessmuk, Kepheart, et-al) used their knives for chopping or splitting their firewood.

I said in another post that I wouldn't want to use a wood-chopping knife to build a log cabin. I'd much prefer an axe for that and much prefer a chainsaw to an axe. As much as I like big chopping knives they are obviously not always the best tool for every cutting and chopping task. Also, for me there are other factors to consider besides just chopping, such as portability.

I wrote in other posts that I carry a large knife in the wilderness for 3 reasons: 1. They are lighter and less bulky to carry than a hatchet or axe 2. They can be used for multiple purposes, especially with a finger choil. I don't have to carry several different tools or knives to do what just one knife can do (although maybe not always as well) 3. If I only had one tool in an emergency or survival situation I'd want a big knife

Also, although a knife is a poor choice for a self-defense weapon, there is something comforting about having a big knife in the wilderness.

Maybe you are not familiar with the qualities and performance of modern, higher-end chopping knives, but I've read many posts over the years from people who actually prefer them more than a hatchet or axe. To each their own, though, and I respect you for carrying tools in the wilderness that work best for you, even though they are heavy and bulky.

 

[Revolverrodger]

To each their own activities and tools.
I’m not saying that a big knife is best for all applications but it works for me.

 

[bikerector]

We've been making choppers for a long time and using them for even longer than that and there's a lot of great discussion going on in this thread.
OP is right that thinner grinds bite deeper but are also prone to binding but it all really depends on the kind of wood you're chopping. You'd think that blades optimised for hardwoods would need to have a thicker grind but in my experience because your chops penetrate less deeply you can get away with a leaner grind (assuming you have decent geometry and steel).
We all know khukuris are awesome, but does anyone here have issues batonning with them? I've not struggled but a lot of customers have said that they aren't as easy or intuitive to work with.
What do you think?

To address the batoning with kuhkri part, it can be a bit odd trying to the the spine at the right angle without too much glancing blows. I prefer kuhkri's with a lot less bend than is traditional, so I don't have this problem anymore so it's been a while since doing such with a traditional style. However, I do remember how it was a little bit of a pain when really wailing on it to blow up knots, because I could, not because it's what one should do with such a tool if treated like a tool. It was fun to baton into pine stumps looking for fatwood... it was a lot harder getting it back out if I couldn't make it all the way through the stump though.

For things that I would normally baton in a camping scenario, I didn't have a problem with a kuhkri much. It was really when I was intentionally abusing my HI kuhkri that I noticed the spine angles being annoying compared to a straight spine. I tend to be a light batoner when doing this as a "real life" activity versus just having fun chopping and destroying logs for recreation and exercise.

I also prefer thin edges on my choppers, just seems to work better for me. This is where edge stability seems to make really nice choppers, instead of something that's just silly tough but the edge dents badly on the hard stuff (looking at you tram machete). I think this is where my love for 52100 came from.

 

[AntDog]

Needs moar pictures.

My brother with his (thanks to @6850 !):

Smaller, but still “choppy”:

Old choppy:

That’s just what I had on my phone. I have lots more choppers. They’re one of my favorite types of knives.

 

[Beastchopper]

http://imgur.com/gallery/TiOoqAw
My condor bushcraft parang does a lot of damage and throws down powsrful impact across almost the entire area of the blade. A recently thinned out handle makes this monster hard to beat. The condor warlock is pretty sweet too. The 5160 ontario sp-53 with a thick convexed edge would pound a hole through a cinderblock wall big enough to walk through and remain unscathed. It thinks it's a hatchet...or an axe...or maybe a splitting maul. My esse junglas and bk-9 are light, bite without the need for might, and have actual knife qualities and uses which is nice too. My condor kukri machete & discord machete (basically a fat sword) await thinner convex regrinds to reach their fullest potential. I anticipate a lot of time and effort for those projects. I hope I don't screw it up, there's a lot of potential there for greatness.

 

[MtnHawk1]

I also prefer thin edges on my choppers, just seems to work better for me. This is where edge stability seems to make really nice choppers, instead of something that's just silly tough but the edge dents badly on the hard stuff (looking at you tram machete). I think this is where my love for 52100 came from

My choppers are from the Busse Knife Group (Swamp Rat) made from SR101 steel, which is modified 52100. I thinned the edges a lot, hoping I wasn't making a big mistake, and was relieved to find they perform great, going considerably deeper into wood! No chipping or rolling even though I chop hard, dead, weathered fir and pine, with knots. I put a microbevel on just to be on the safe side. I couldn't be more pleased with these knives and their Resiprene C handles. My only regret is that they're not in production anymore.

 

[Bigfattyt]

We all know khukuris are awesome, but does anyone here have issues batonning with them? I've not struggled but a lot of customers have said that they aren't as easy or intuitive to work with.
What do you think?

There is a learning curve to chopping with them, and batonning can be harder too.

I've had relatively straighter Khukri like Busse's KZII, and I have two HI khukri and an unknown model, plus a magnum Khukri machete from Cold Steel.

Obviously, I don't baton the same with a hidden tang Khukri with natural wood or horn handles as I would with a Busse full tang with micarta scales.

 

[Kailash Blades]

For things that I would normally baton in a camping scenario, I didn't have a problem with a kuhkri much. It was really when I was intentionally abusing my HI kuhkri that I noticed the spine angles being annoying compared to a straight spine. I tend to be a light batoner when doing this as a "real life" activity versus just having fun chopping and destroying logs for recreation and exercise.

I hear you on the spine angle making it a little more complicated. For me though I think it's the drastic recurve edge which can prove the trickiest. Because there's a point in the belly which is so much lower than the rest of the blade it can often tend to grab there and act as a pivot point meaning that your hits don't always move the knife how you'd expect. At the same time though I feel this same pivoting situation helps avoid binding so it's all good by me

 

[trevitrace]

Needs moar pictures.

My brother with his (thanks to @6850 !):

Smaller, but still “choppy”:

Old choppy:

That’s just what I had on my phone. I have lots more choppers. They’re one of my favorite types of knives.

That Randy is a hell of a guy.

 

[AntDog]

That Randy is a hell of a guy.

Sholl is. I hear that Adam feller is one hell of a swell dude too.

 

[Gvard]

My observations comparing a machete (modified tramontina 18 inch), large knife (esee junglas) and a hatchet (gransfors wildlife) in chopping:

Weight including sheath (because that's what matters when you're carrying stuff around):
knife: 930 g (original esee kydex sheath)
hatchet: 687 g (original leather sheath)
machete: 577 g (pvc pipe as sheath)

The Junglas is heavier than both even without the sheath.

I disagree with the argument that someone would rather carry a large knife instead of a hatchet because it's lighter.. it's NOT. The wildlife hatchet is much lighter than the junglas, even without the sheath, and will easily outchop any knife/kukri/parang... in its weight class or even above. Many people forget that a large knife has a longer edge than a hatchet which needs to be covered by a sheath and that adds to the total carry weight.

The machete will noticeably outchop the junglas on both green and dead wood, binding or not.

If you like the versatility of a large knife, then consider adding a small fixed blade to your hatchet while still saving weight and being much more effective at a variety of tasks. Same thing with a machete.

 

[Roguer]

Yep @Revolverrodger you described my area for a chopper in boreal forest and alderbrush and some eastern leafy stuffy trees. It is what my SP-51 and SP-53 is bestest at in this area. 1/4 spine saber grind with what ever sharpienes edge I can get on it. One of those has become the core of my "kit" depending of what I'm doing or remember to take. ALWAYS a SAW with extra blades...smaller saw if its a light weight one and extra blades...the Heavy chopper and a middle weight like a BK-9 or RD-9 besides the hip rider blade and folder or a two and multi tool or two. If I get forced to bring some nieces or nephews a long I got some little pack people to spread it out on. But mostly lately tis been working on the old farm stead keeping the deer killing zones ready for their murder/killing/terminatedforfreezer). (For more PC freak minded people that means "DEER HARVEST" so you aren't offended by the word Deer Murder and so forth.) For trail clearing the axe and saw do the most work but many times with the fall trees to get to use the axe I need the chopper that I find is safer for when medication induced fatigue sets in. Then when the work area is more cleared then the axe can do the faster bigger area clearing stuff. What is used when depends on the task at hand usually. But the large chopper type tools I like help do things faster and safer for in the olden days when I just used an axe to hack.

Other areas need other sorts of tools, some places and thin machete can do most of the work, others need heavy axe and chain saws. What sort of chopper/tool that is needed depends on what locality and literal work environment your in.

 

[Houlahound]

I find the Bolo style machete is the best all round chopper.

I also think 99.9999999% knife nuts should conserve their own energy on a trail and walk around things in the way. Better for the environment to.

The only real need to waste energy chopping a path is if you are a surveyor or you are getting paid by fat tourists.

To answer your question...Bolo.

 

[Mecha]

Not sure quite what your definition of "straight bladed" is, but...

I both guffawed and chortled.

 

[razorburn]

I've recently been using a CRKT Halfachance parang machete by Ken Onion. It features a over molded rubber handle.It has become my favorite machete because chops impressively and the rubber handles does wonders for felt shock to the hand.

 

[MtnHawk1]

Gvard, it doesn't surprise me that some big chopping knives weigh more than some small hatchets, but I think it's safe to say that generally the reverse is true. I like chopping knives in the 8.5"-9.5" blade range so the Junglas is larger than what I need, although I think it's a good knife. Most of my chopping knives weigh a pound, or a few ounces over, and have 1/4" spines. Sheaths are usually pretty light so I don't pay much attention to their weight.

Regarding portability, I think most people would agree that a hatchet or axe is more awkward to carry than a big knife. Also, wood replacement handles are sold for hatchets and axes, so they do break, which can be a problem in the wilderness. My two hatchets have steel handles to avoid this. Good quality fixed-blade knives rarely break and if they do it's almost always from abuse or being used in ways they aren't designed for, such as prying.

I mostly chop hard, dead, weathered fir and pine, with knots, in the western U.S. I doubt if any thin-blade tool could chop this type of wood well, or for long, but even if it could the size and shape of these blades are not what I want in a multi-purpose knife.

If I was going to chop down trees all day I'd definitely take a hatchet or axe (or better yet, a chainsaw) instead of a large chopping knife, but my chopping tasks in the wilderness are relatively minimal. A multi-functional chopping knife blade is way more useful to me than a much thicker hatchet or axe blade, which is pretty much designed only for chopping. Even a big knife, especially with a finger choil, is much easier and more agile to use for more delicate cutting tasks than a hatchet or axe. This great versatility, less weight and bulk, and better portability, are the main reasons I prefer a large knife to any other cutting or chopping tool, for what I need. That said, I also have a high regard for durable, quality smaller knives and multi-tools, and carry those, too.

Basically, what is most important is what works best for each person according to their situation. For starters, there are many different types of wilderness environments. Each individual is different in what they want or need to do in the wilderness, what tools they need to do it with, their knowledge and skill level, physical condition, how much weight they can, or are willing to, carry, etc. And one never knows where or when an emergency or survival situation may arise. These are just some important considerations.

The wilderness can be dangerous. People should know and understand the pros and cons of all their tool options so they make the best choices for what they need.

 

[d762nato]

Needs moar pictures.

My brother with his (thanks to @6850 !):

Smaller, but still “choppy”:

Old choppy:

That’s just what I had on my phone. I have lots more choppers. They’re one of my favorite types of knives.

Old choppy:

That’s just what I had on my phone. I have lots more choppers. They’re one of my favorite types of knives.[/QUOTE]

I'm curious as too who made old Choppy? Also your brother reminds me of Toby Keith for some reason.

 

[not2sharp]

.....

I'm curious as too who made old Choppy? ......

That is a US model 1909 bolo knife.

N2s

 

[AntDog]

1909 bolo made by Plumb in 1917. 102 years old, with a fresh edge, still kicking ass.

 

[not2sharp]

The bottom knife a custom made by Bill Siegle that was inspired by the 1909. He made it from 5160 and gave it a full flat grind.



n2s