Chris Caracci on Liner Locks and Emersons.......

[Don Rearic]

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say on many points. But...like I said...I don't have the time to sit here and hammer every last one of them out.

I will say one thing about the Axis and how I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying...

I never mentioned spring breakage that I remember of. I mentioned how under certain conditions that lubrication along with force imparted to the blade could make the mechanism jump. Inertia. It's probably going to be a lesser chance because of two springs...but I simply don't see this as superior to a liner lock.

As for my problems with BM, I stated them as an example and after a period of time where I was no longer purchasing BM liner locks, I never pounded them for it because for all I know, they have corrected all of the stripping problems, etc.

So, although I stated them here and in a minor fashion in some places, you do NOT see me in threads regarding ANY of these knives, going in there and doing what "The Emerson Bashers" do.

Again, your comparison is null and void because you don't understand the very simple concept I am trying to get across. That's OK.

I think if we want to have a discussion on a lock that is virtually unbreakable, we would have to talk about Balisongs. Since the various Governments involved think we are children who should not own certain implements, most people cannot carry them and some cannot even own them.

But that is for another day.

 

[SIFU1A]

well untill this afternoon i had never handled a axis lock but after looking at one (actually 3) it is even MORE obvious what CJ is talking about - your finger (or something else) could EASILY disengage the thing - i too, again have NEVER had a liner lock fail (other than a CRKT) a spine whack test, i test them all now, the only one that has given me probs is the rolling lock on my sifu, a well made liner lock (ie emerson, BM, spydie) imho is as good as it gets, other than a fixed blade - and that doesnt even count the customs - my crawford kasper locks great, and i bet ernies liner locks work fine too,,,,,,,,


sifu

 

[Don Rearic]

Careful with the spine wacking friend. You can drop Glocks from I believe two stories and they won't discharge...so...don't drop your Glock to test it out that way either. Heh...H&K P7/M-13 too. (WOW, another great weapon)

 

[Gator97]

Originally posted by SIFU1A

...after looking at one (actually 3) it is even MORE obvious what CJ is talking about - your finger (or something else) could EASILY disengage the thing
Hmm. I've handled probably several dozens, yet that thing is somehow missing for me. I mean the reason why would it <B>Easily</B> disengage <B>accidentally</B>.
Once again, the only way I see my finger disengaging Axis is by pulling it back, correct? Is there any other way to disengage the lock, intentionally or unintentionally?
I can understand what Don says about inertia, though fine it highly unlikely, out of curiosity I'll try to do some phone book stabbing this weekend, let's see, but anyway, either you pull the axis bar back and disengage it, or while stabbing into something a part of that thing apparently protruding somehow hits the axis bar... That must be an interesting pic And a complex configuration. I don't argue about that, things happen, even more strange things, yet to say that this is <B>Easily</B> and <B>Likely</B>, donno...

<B>i too, again have NEVER had a liner lock fail (other than a CRKT)
a spine whack test</B>
Well, you had one I can say honestly that I never had a liner lock failing on me, as well as any other lock. Does that make any of the locks absolutely fail proof? No.

<B>a well made liner lock (ie emerson, BM, spydie) imho is as good as it gets, other than a fixed blade</B>
Ok, I don't want to argue on that one as I don't think so, but for a second, let's assume this is it, <B>a well executed liner lock never fails</B>, now given that <I>fact</I> and the multiple reports regarding liner lock failures under different conditions, not only that spine whack, and in absence of axis failures, wouldn't it be <B>valid</B> to conclude that chances of running into <B>not so well executed</B> liner lock are much greater than the chance of axis failure, which seems to be pretty much consistently executed?

Originally posted by Don Rearic

Again, your comparison is null and void because you don't understand the very simple concept I am trying to get across.
yeah I know, for one I was not comparing things, I just stated a fact. Probably I'll never understand why you telling several times about stripped screws is "minor" and somone else telling about similar things is a basher. Let alone the overall tone in those messages.

 

[komondor]

Gator97, in responding to the stubborn Sifu:

You beat me to it, Gator. This whole argument comes down to the MANY KNOWN incidences of liner lock failure versus picking up an Axis lock and saying "Oh yeah, that'll close easily." Talk about a lazy assessment. Especially since I have heard ZERO reports of an Axis lock button becoming disengaged during any type of use. I'll say it again: the chance of an Axis lock becoming unintentionally disengaged is extremely unlikely.

We have a tendency to disregard any new systems that make our older, familiar, and more favorite systems seem inferior. This is human nature.

 

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by Gator97
yeah I know, for one I was not comparing things, I just stated a fact. Probably I'll never understand why you telling several times about stripped screws is "minor" and somone else telling about similar things is a basher. Let alone the overall tone in those messages.

See what I mean? I don't actively go out of my way to inform everyone of BM's PAST FAULTS and you don't even get multiple explanations of that. It has merely erupted because of a discussion about Emerson Bashing...

I mean, if you don't get it YET, you never will. Respond if you must, but damn. I don't know what else I have to do, send up smoke signals? Semaphore? What?

 

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by komondor
We have a tendency to disregard any new systems that make our older, familiar, and more favorite systems seem inferior. This is human nature.

While that is true in alot of cases, and you probably did not aim that specifically to me, I have to say something.

When I say, "X & Y" about "Hot, New Lock Z," it is not because I wish to disregard newer locks or anything like that at all. (Speaking about myself). It is human nature to fear or hate change, that is duly noted.

However, if you do a search for the word "Compression" in this very forum, you will see me singing the praises of the Spyderco Compression Lock as can be found on the Gunting. If there is an improvement on the Walker-style Liner Lock, that would probably be it.

 

[Gator97]

Originally posted by Don Rearic

I don't actively go out of my way to inform everyone of BM's PAST FAULTS and you don't even get multiple explanations of that.
You do proactively go after every negative comment regarding EKI. Regardless is that a "past" QC problem(s) or comments regarding present designs.

It has merely erupted because of a discussion about Emerson Bashing
Come on. Someone is "bashing" Emerson and you erupt there with - "And BM screws were stripped too"... Very convincing that must be.

I don't know what else I have to do, send up smoke signals? Semaphore? What?
I'll have to quote you on that one - if you don't get it YET, you never will

 

[Don Rearic]

Gator,

I never started even talking about BM QC problems until such rabid BM fans such as yourself started condemning Emerson Knives while ignoring a "PAST" Problem from BM.

You don't get it. Now, we can go back and forth, "You don't get it, no, YOU don't get it...no, YOU don't get it...no, YOU don't get it."

The point was to merely show how problems PASS and they become history and not to necessarily knock a companies PRESENT efforts.

Apparently, I get it very well and you don't.

And, I took flack for it in the past, so I guess I will again, I don't think you quite understand what I'm talking about. Yet, you insist that you do and I then become frustrated. And yes, I think it is a problem of language. I don't think you quite comprehend what it is I'm trying to get across to you as a concept of giving someone a fair shake for what they are making now.

So...I never started out bashing BM, I began to let loose a bit of OLD INFO as many of you have with regard to what you are offering up as a superior product which is just another product that has had its' own ups and downs in the QC department. But it is YOU that don't understand that.

Yet, there remains one, basic difference between you and I. And it existed yesterday, today and will probably exist tomorrow as well.

If there is a thread where someone asks about Emersons and the thread turns hot with criticisms of EKI, you will eventually be found there showing your own, OLD information...

If there is a thread about someone receiving "NIB Old Stock" of BM CQC-7s or AFCKs, and they start griping about screws being stripped, I won't be found there. Why? Because it has past me. That's why.

If BM has a present problem with QC, I would probably pass as well.

 

[SIFU1A]

uh dont know how ya cant see how the knife can unlock w/a twisting motion of your hand - imho i understand what cj is saying, and can see how it could happen - honestly i might would buy an axis lock if all were not so short (ieBM) or ugly (ieSOG) - and i have read tons of material from people i trust, like emerson, pat crawford, cj, bob kasper, etc and that info combined w/my experiences has proven to me that they are ok - dont mean to offend, just my opinion, based on my experiences - why dont one of ya send me a new BM axis and i'll run a 1 year test on it verses my crawford custom, and we'll settle this once and for all - hey get what turns ya on, what ya trust, its your ass on the line, so do what you think is right - in this case means i still carry my commander and crawford w/confidence, along w/my glocks.....when i want somerthing that aint gonna fail for sure, i carry my polkawski companion/CRKT companion/gerber mark 11/MOD razorback anyway - NOTHING made by man is unbreakable, a bud of mine messed up a glock 19


sifu