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Chris Reeve Knives -what's the difference?

unit said:
It is a slow progression for Spyderco (or others) to close this gap in tolerances, but surely you realize that the gap should be diminishing? If it is not, then consumers would be correct to assume that quality is slipping...because if your quality is not IMPROVING constantly in this world, your value is decreasing.

Look at EVERY consumer product around you (TV, cars/trucks, personal electronics, etc.) would you except the level of quality we had 20 year ago? If so, it seems you are among the minority. What are you using to create these posts?...what would that have cost you 20 years ago if it existed? More importantly what will it be worth in 5 (or even 1) years?
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I think you are confusing technological advances with overall quality and tolerances and they're not the same. I own many items that today are not produced with the same tolerances or attention to detail as they were 20-30 years ago (including automobiles, stereos, televisions, furniture, clothing, and more). Part of that is due to outsourcing -- whether or not you choose to discuss it does not change its relevance in this discussion -- here in the US, many products now ship with lower tolerances than they have in the past but for most people it is an acceptable, even necessary compromise if we are to enjoy the products we do at a particular price point.

However, even setting that aside for a moment, mass production and machine-operated processes have certainly resulted in lower quality and looser tolerances in many products and services today. Has technology improved? Of course; by leagues, in fact. But if you're asking me to agree that cars are better built today, or that today's mass-produced products are improved significantly in longevity or overall quality, I must strongly disagree. Part of what makes CRK's products so precise is the human factor -- someone hand-inspecting each item at each step in production to ensure accuracy. I think once you remove that hands-on approach and the time it takes to achieve CRK's results, you're looking at a lesser quality knife.
 
Oh well, it's all relative. For those who smoke a carton a week they will smoke a small Sebenza every 7 weeks. Is it worth it?
 
Ankerson said:
I agree. :)

I am not a blind CRK fan really, but I do own 2 Umnumzaans because I like them. :D
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And I certainly would not suggest that you are...just as I arrived at my conclusion about the Umnumzaan honestly as well.

Ill claim that it is a fantastic knife, and I realized this first hand. It just does not offer me as much happiness as I find elsewhere.

Edit to add:

I am logging off now. I need to box up my last Umnumzaan to gift it to a friend coming to visit today. This action will bring me far more happiness than owning the knife did. I am seriously sorry that I can not offer this to more people to try out so that they can make an informed and personal decision like I did. I am almost certain that most people would arrive at a different conclusion than I did;)
 
allyourblood said:
Still an Endura every 7 weeks. :p

But yeah, I had no idea the taxes were that high nowadays. Are the tolerances improved? :p
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Nope, just our wonderful Government ripping us off more and more.

Don't get me started on Gas Prices....
 
RetiredGuns said:
..or a Shamwownu 710 a week! :D
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It's costing me over $300 a month in gas just to get to work and back home at current prices.... :mad: :grumpy: :(

And yes I am trying to get moved closer to home, but it hasn't happened yet, wonderful times we are living in these days....
 
allyourblood said:
I think you are confusing technological advances with overall quality and tolerances and they're not the same. I own many items that today are not produced with the same tolerances or attention to detail as they were 20-30 years ago (including automobiles, stereos, televisions, furniture, clothing, and more). Part of that is due to outsourcing -- whether or not you choose to discuss it does not change its relevance in this discussion -- here in the US, many products now ship with lower tolerances than they have in the past but for most people it is an acceptable, even necessary compromise if we are to enjoy the products we do at a particular price point.

However, even setting that aside for a moment, mass production and machine-operated processes have certainly resulted in lower quality and looser tolerances in many products and services today. Has technology improved? Of course; by leagues, in fact. But if you're asking me to agree that cars are better built today, or that today's mass-produced products are improved significantly in longevity or overall quality, I must strongly disagree. Part of what makes CRK's products so precise is the human factor -- someone hand-inspecting each item at each step in production to ensure accuracy. I think once you remove that hands-on approach and the time it takes to achieve CRK's results, you're looking at a lesser quality knife.
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"Quality" goods today are much better than "quality" goods of yesteryear. I doubt unit is suggesting that cheap knives of tomorrow will have CRK levels of F&F, but perhaps that the likes of Spyderco, BM, ZT etc will be at those tolerances as the technology matures and decreases in cost. Technology and gloablization have allowed cheaper products on the market, but that doesn't mean everything has degraded.

Much like the standard features, fuel efficiency, safety, ride comfort, body panel fit, aerodynamics, tire wear life, tune-up intervals, engine component fit, volumetric efficiency, emissions, etc. have improved on vehicles, knives have improved in materials, fit, and finish. Gerber used to be premium and fell from grace, but that does not mean it hasn't been replaced or superseded by many other brands. That improvement from some brands is the result of the progression into the 21st century, just as much as the spread of Wal-Mart.
 
hardheart said:
That improvement from some brands is the result of the progression into the 21st century, just as much as the spread of Wal-Mart.
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IMO you worded that correctly..... They are a virus that is spreading.....
 
monkeyman666 said:
The CRK's looks great but aren't really hard use knives. If you want to spent $400 on a knife, buy a Strider SnG. Much more bang for the buck.
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thats hilarious I've owned 1 Strider, I sold it and in no way did it come close to my Lrg Sebenza( in the fit and finish department and it wasn't the greatest cutter but to each there own)
 
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CRK and Strider don't directly compare as they are two completely different types of knives, however the quality is there from both Companies.
 
I agree with what you're saying, hardheart. But I still stand by the idea that it isn't cost-effective, nor do I expect it ever will be, for most popular knife manufacturers to achieve identical (or near-identical) tolerances to what CRK currently produces. I think that the high-speed, high-production model in place prohibits these companies from getting there. If they want to enjoy the same result, they'll have to employ the same methods and then we're back to the same cost.
 
I think Victorinox is the paradigm when speaking of a company that can mass-produce affordable quality knifes consistently within spec—perhaps not to the degree of CRK tolerances but very acceptable, very serviceable, nonetheless. Their flawed product ratio is astonishingly low compared to the sheer volume they produce. Truly, Victorinox has mastered the fine balancing act of managing high-speed production with hand assembly. End-user maintenance would require a good deal of patience and some specialised tools; even Victorinox is more apt to simply toss any faulty return and just replace it with a new knife.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTzAtykSBVA&feature (video is in German but fascinating all the same.)

Then we have the curious anomaly of companies like Great Eastern Cutlery that have opted to retrofit their operations with ‘antique’ shop tools/ machines in order to make a product that requires a lot of hand-finishing. No two knives are exactly alike, which holds a lot of charm for some knife aficionados. End-user maintenance would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for the average person.
http://greateasterncutlery.net/blog/pocket-knives/knife-terminology/

I think CRK exists within its own niche. It’s the older model Mustang you can tinker with in your garage at home and not worry about having specialised computer diagnostic equipment and factory tools for maintenance. The components fit together like a well-made jig-saw puzzle from what I understand. I can see the appeal and value in this. Does this make ‘em worth the money? You decide…
 
To the OP original question: well made knives at a reasonable price considering they are custom. I don't find the fixed blades appealing, they always seem to not QUITE have the right mix of features and steels that I want (for example, too many of the fixed blades have serrations--what's up with that, few people who know knives want them). I do find the folders appealing, and plan to eventually get one for EDC (though I'll have to sell off a couple of spyderco's to convince my wife).
 
Valid point Timber, you are correct. I was just thinking in contrast to production knives: production versus "everything else." But basically there are 3 categories and you're right: production, semi-custom (mid-tech), and full custom.
 
timberweasel said:
I think CRK exists within its own niche. It’s the older model Mustang you can tinker with in your garage at home and not worry about having specialised computer diagnostic equipment and factory tools for maintenance. The components fit together like a well-made jig-saw puzzle from what I understand. I can see the appeal and value in this. Does this make ‘em worth the money? You decide…
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Not really. You can swap parts from mustang to mustang. You can swap scales from one Spyderco to another. Supposedly not so with the Sebenza. This is the part I don't understand. They are said to be manufactured to the tightest tolerances consistently, but you can't swap a blade without CRK hand fitting the stop pin sleeve, bushing, or washers. I understand that a .000 of whatever can throw something off but then where is that consistency?
 
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