Chris reeve s35vn

[Cereal_killer]

I'm currently in the middle of reprofiling a Sebenza, and it's turning out quite nicely and fairly easily to boot. I have no doubt when I'm completely finished at 0.5u that I'll have an excellent edge. Will have to check back down the road for an edge retention report. M4 is a bear to sharpen. It's not harder to sharpen...it just takes a lot longer, and it's very much worth it when you're finished. Out of AUS-8, 154CM, VG-10, S30V, D2, M4, and 8Cr13MOv, I've never had any of those turn out to be anything other than hair-popping. Blade geometry and how long they hold that edge is the difference. The only time I couldn't get a hair-popping, whittling edge on a steel, it was because of technique. Once I corrected my technique, all was well.

Please do make a post about it when your done and then you can update that thread with the wear data. I have recently reprofiled my Sebenza as well and would chime in my opinion (only around 2-3 weeks ago). So far I have been experiencing no damage with normal use and tho it's never lost its hair shaving edge I have needed to touch it up a few times on my strop but not even with leather/green compound, all it's needed was my denim strop with white compound and 1ūm dia-paste. That's at 18DPS

 

[uofaengr]

Please do make a post about it when your done and then you can update that thread with the wear data. I have recently reprofiled my Sebenza as well and would chime in my opinion (only around 2-3 weeks ago). So far I have been experiencing no damage with normal use and tho it's never lost its hair shaving edge I have needed to touch it up a few times on my strop but not even with leather/green compound, all it's needed was my denim strop with white compound and 1ūm dia-paste. That's at 18DPS

Will do. I'm going at 18 dps as well.

Also, I've found diamonds to not be necessary on S30V.

 

[Big Mike]

IMO, if you need toughness, pick a different steel. Steels should be run at their optimal hardness. CRK runs theirs a few points softer then other makers, they have their reason.

Actually, running a steel a few points below optimal hardness for edge retention will result in a tougher blade.

Don't confuse toughness with hardness, pushing a steel harder to increase wear resistance (edge retention) will actually make it less tough.

Knifemakers often tailor their Heat Treatment Regime to give them a good balance of toughness and edge retention, sacrificing a bit of ultimate edge retention in favor of a blade that is less likely to chip or break when abused.






Big Mike

 

[Strong-Dog]

Actually, running a steel a few points below optimal hardness for edge retention will result in a tougher blade.

Don't confuse toughness with hardness, pushing a steel harder to increase wear resistance (edge retention) will actually make it less tough.

Knifemakers often tailor their Heat Treatment Regime to give them a good balance of toughness and edge retention, sacrificing a bit of ultimate edge retention in favor of a blade that is less likely to chip or break when abused.






Big Mike

If my relatively minimal understanding of metallurgy serves me well, then running a steel a few points below optimal hardness doesn't always increase toughness.

Also, edge retention definitely isn't the same thing as wear resistance.

 

[HwangJino]

It's not the easiest steel to sharpen, but once sharp it holds it very well.

 

[ericvar101]

My Sebenzas in S35VN holds a shave sharp edge longer than my M390 Para-Military 2. Blade Geometry is everything. Because of the Sebenza's hollow grind that make it super thin near the cutting edge, I receive better performance than I do with my FFG M390 blade (which is no slouch). I used to be all about the latest super steels but not so much anymore. I would keep your CRK. if you want to trade it for my M390 PM2 let me know, maybe we can work something out. obviously it would not be straight across even deal, I would have to throw in a little something to square it up.

 

[McCleaven]

Since I've had it back, it is fantastic. I just have my eyes on the benchmade and was wondering if the steel upgrade would be worth getting rid of the umnumzaan. Not looking to get a para 2, Eric, though I appreciate the offer. I can't due Spyderco's anymore. Long story.
Seems as if s35vn holds up just fine. I just don't like having to sharpen constantly.

 

[McCleaven]

Double post

 

[unwisefool]

I use a ceramic kitchen rod to sharpen my knives now. Works great.

 

[Big_E]

Nothing wrong with CRK heat treat, IMHO. However, S30V and S35Vn have a high vanadium carbide content (HRC 82/84) that responds best to diamond hones.

+1 :thumbup:I've had great success using diamond hones. And, I've also noticed the S35VN to hold a better edge and be a little harder from its original release. On a first run carbon Sebenza I had, the edge continually rolled over. The latest S35VN from CRK is significantly better IMO. A few of my forum peeps convinced me to venture back to it after a year hiatus. Very pleased with the later knives for sure.

 

[JNewell]

The subject of Chris Reeve steel hardness has been discussed extensively here. The Sebenza 25, which I own, is believed to have harder S35VN steel than the Umnumzaan and Sebenza 21. Based on my personal experience, having owned several of each of them, I would agree with this. Have you ever owned a 25? To me, it is the perfect combination of the Sebenza and Umnumzaan.

Believed by whom, on what basis?

 

[PURPLEDC]

Since I've had it back, it is fantastic. I just have my eyes on the benchmade and was wondering if the steel upgrade would be worth getting rid of the umnumzaan. Not looking to get a para 2, Eric, though I appreciate the offer. I can't due Spyderco's anymore. Long story.
Seems as if s35vn holds up just fine. I just don't like having to sharpen constantly.

I think there is a huge misconception with super steels. And honestly I think at least some of the perceived increase in performance is going to be placebo. There are many many factors that are going to contribute to a knife's ability to cut effectively and honestly the actual type of steel IMHO is the least important given all the variables. The term "upgrade" is relative to exactly what you consider better. If edge retention is your main need then yes something like m390 will be technically "better". But if you have issues sharpening s35vn then in terms of edge maintenance then its not better and you will struggle with your current sharpening techniques and tools. Just remember man that blade geometry, thickness edge geometry, polished or toothy will all have a profound effect on your perception of "better". I suggest you evaluate what your needs are and choose a knife with steel that best suits those needs. It makes no sense to have a knife that on paper is technically better if you wont benefit or even in some cases suffer for the upgrade. I know for me I would take a good 154cm blade over ANY super steel. I have no issues with sharpening more often. I just dont want to have to rip out the last few hairs I have left to get the job done. To me I dont care if an edge lasts 5 times as long if I have to work 10 times harder to get it back.

 

[Ajack60]

I think there is a huge misconception with super steels. And honestly I think at least some of the perceived increase in performance is going to be placebo. There are many many factors that are going to contribute to a knife's ability to cut effectively and honestly the actual type of steel IMHO is the least important given all the variables. The term "upgrade" is relative to exactly what you consider better. If edge retention is your main need then yes something like m390 will be technically "better". But if you have issues sharpening s35vn then in terms of edge maintenance then its not better and you will struggle with your current sharpening techniques and tools. Just remember man that blade geometry, thickness edge geometry, polished or toothy will all have a profound effect on your perception of "better". I suggest you evaluate what your needs are and choose a knife with steel that best suits those needs. It makes no sense to have a knife that on paper is technically better if you wont benefit or even in some cases suffer for the upgrade. I know for me I would take a good 154cm blade over ANY super steel. I have no issues with sharpening more often. I just dont want to have to rip out the last few hairs I have left to get the job done. To me I dont care if an edge lasts 5 times as long if I have to work 10 times harder to get it back.

Amen brother....I fell into that trap and I will say from 1st hand experience the super steel at the end of the day wasn't any better. I was, notice the "was" hung up on ZDP189, got into my mind it would be better for edge retention, it really wasn't all that better at holding an edge over the Kershaw 14C28N. I had to learn how to put an edge on it. I kept chipping the blade when I sharpened it. Found out I was applying too much pressure to the blade, ergo, it took me a lot longer to put the edge back on the ZDP. Personally I love my CRK's and the way they heat treat the steel. It's a lot more enjoyable now. The question I ask myself now is what am I giving up to have a different "super steel".

 

[BellaBlades]

CRK has some of the best steel IMO. You may just need to reset the factory bevel to match your sharpener. Or just learn how to sharpen in general.
The S35VN kicks but. It takes an insane uniform edge. And a true quality heat treat.
I prefer it to anything else I have tried. I would say this and M390 are my favorites.
Both of them are relatively easy to get a crazy edge and not have to fight with a burr.
Practice. Set an edge your can maintain and save the aggravation of sending it in.

But like I said the uniformity that this steel achieves. Priceless.

I sharpen knives for folks to set a nice edge at 30 or 40 as well as other members.

If you need to get it sharpened, send it to me and I will have it done better than CRK in 24 hours.
Matt

 

[RevDevil]

If you can't sharpen, you can't sharpen, a different knife or a different steel will not change that fact. You need to change the way you sharpen your knife and there is lots of help on that subject in these forums.

I have a sebenza and use the Sharpmaker. It worked fine except with the tip, where the angle of the sharpmaker did not match both sides of the angle of the knife. A short reprofile on one side with the diamond rods of the sharpmaker solved that problem.

Correct! Learning to sharpen should be first on the list of priorities, or higher than buying a knife with a steel that will really puzzle you. As already stated, yes, yes M390 and CPM-M4 will outperform S35VN. My advice would be to have some patience, study your technique, and practice. Also, keep in mind CRK knives have a slight convex cutting edge. At least the 4 Sebenzas and 2 Umnumzaans I've owned had them and I'm sure yours does too.

 

[marthinus]

Long story short. I have an umnumzaan and love everything about it, but I just can't seem to sharpen the blade without sending it up to CRK. 8 weeks away from me is a long time. I have considered selling it to buy a knife with m4 or m390 (benchmade 810). Are those steels as good as the reports say? Or am I just not giving s35vn a chance? I'm not bashing CR and their use of this steel. I just want to know if the other steels I listed will out perform s35vn enough for me to consider selling on of my favorite knives.

Thanks all,
Steve

Steve.

I see you are in "Springs Area". Are you South African?

The reason I ask is there are a few of our local guys that might be able to help you out.

One cause of poor edge retention not mentioned already is an over heated edge. This is more common then people think and can take several sharpening sessions to remove.

If you are in Colorado Springs or Springs NY....sorry but I cant help but am sure others would be willing to help. What I have found is that you can have the best steel heat treated exceptionally well but do not have a good edge on it the steel will not perform as good as you want it to.

 

[Buffalohump]

Here's a suggestion: sell the Seb and use the money to get a flatground Spyderco Endura in ZDP-189 and a Benchmade Barrage or Contego in M390 (Knifeworks has a satin finished one in stock right now). Together these two knives will cost you around $300, so you should have some money left over to purchase some more sharpening equipment. I recommend a Sharpmaker (which you have already) and a DMT 8" DuoSharp in Fine and Extra Fine. Watch some tutorials on Youtube on sharpening freehand. Once you use the sharpie trick, its a lot easier.

The cool thing is the Endura will likely never need to be sharpened... but I would occasionally touch it up on the Sharpmaker anyway, just to keep your hand in. The M390 blade will probably only need a light sharpening twice a year. I have personally found M390 quite easy to sharpen. I even rolled the edge of my M390 knife once and was able to restore it without too much trouble.

Remember a LOT of it has to do with the edge geometry. Thick edges are a pain. Both Spydie and Benchmade have thin edges that are easy to touch up and keep sharp.

Thanks all. I use a sharp maker as well ( they recommend it on their we page). I have considered selling for a 25. Held one the other day and I really liked it. In addition to the sharpening question, does m4 or m390 really do any better than s35vn? Any experiences? Never been good at the mousepad/sandpaper way. Doesn't make since and there seem to be a lot of variables due to pressure, softness of the pad, and angle consistency.

 

[shqxk]

If my relatively minimal understanding of metallurgy serves me well, then running a steel a few points below optimal hardness doesn't always increase toughness.

Also, edge retention definitely isn't the same thing as wear resistance.

+1

Edge retention contributed from many factor ie. hardness, toughness, edge stability, grain size, wear resistance, geometry, what material to cut and how do you cut etc.

Ceramic has much higher wear resistance than any steel and yet it doesn't hold an edge as long as steel.

 

[uofaengr]

Both Spydie and Benchmade have thin edges that are easy to touch up and keep sharp.

Do you mean thin factory edges or thin behind the edge because a lot of BM's are notorious for being fairly thick behind the edge and having very obtuse factory edges that require heavy reprofiling in my experience.

 

[Buffalohump]

I meant the edge straight from the factory yeah....

That's not been my experience with the models I've used the most: Ritter Grip, 581 Barrage and 9052 AFO II. All had great thin edges out the box.

Do you mean thin factory edges or thin behind the edge because a lot of BM's are notorious for being fairly thick behind the edge and having very obtuse factory edges that require heavy reprofiling in my experience.